Business Compare - China Eastern vs. China Southern vs Delta One
 

I've got a one way flight I'm looking to book using DL Miles from HND to NYC in early June and would like a business or first product. Delta is showing options for China Eastern(777-300) & China Southern(777-300ER) for 80K Skymiles and Delta One (777) for 130k.

Looking for feedback on either business product MU or CZ. Are they both inferior to the DL One product. Opinions on the added value of DL metal. I'm already understanding that no phones and challenging wifi would be expected on MU/CZ.

Also, is there another Skyteam product/routing that I'm not seeing that may be better than all three?

Thanks!

In terms of the hard product:

1. China Eastern (reverse herringbone)
2. China Southern (staggered)
3. Delta (herringbone)

Service is probably more consistent on Delta although lower overall level.

Personally I would take China Eastern via Shanghai but you may value not having to double back enough to pay more for Delta's inferior hard product

The double back doesn't bother me. This will be the end of long MR and I want to be comfortable, rested and overall enjoy this last leg back. I'm all ears here.

For MU and CZ, check aircraft type and seating configurations. I think DL's 100% direct aisle access is wonderful.

Given the premium to fly DL and the fact that I like reverse herringbone seats, I would most likely go with MU. I have only flown long-haul once on MU (LAX-PVG) and found it to be fine overall. How long is your connection going to be in PVG?

On Skyteam I'd honestly take anything over Delta's 777s. It's not as much as the seat as the age of the cabin that's an issue there...

Between the 2 Chinese carriers, I think CZ has a western edge. Also CAN isn't as dumpy as PVG T1 to transit in so that's a boon.

Is there any availability via Korean Air? The new business class seats on KE85 (747-8) are second to none. Also check TPE-JFK via China Airlines, though they might have more blackout dates than usual.

JFK is MU's flagship route, so you're guaranteed a nice plane, and Shanghai is a much shorter backtrack than Guangzhou. If I were the OP, I would shoot for a stopover in order to justify the diversion, and minimize time spent at PVG. Fly HND-SHA, spend the night in Shanghai, and do PVG-JFK the next day.

I've flown on CZ and would recommend. I believe they only fly 777-300ER to JFK and the planes are modern, clean and comfortable. The Business layout provides aisle access for all 1-2-1 layout. I'm large and found the seat excellent. Pillows and duvet better than anything I've had on any US airline. There are multiple lounge options in CAN...CZ is good for comfort, the premium lounge (covering several airlines, Priority, Diners etc) has better food. On board service was excellent, food was good-to-very good, entertainment is fine. Wine and cocktail are a bit of a puzzle for Chinese airlines, but they try very hard. For me, non-use of phone and Internet is not a factor. Staff had pretty good functional English and where there is an issue, they disappear and come back with an English speaker very quickly.

KE and CI are both terrible with blackout dates.

If OP is fine with either spending a few hours in Taipei or flying out of NRT, though, CI would be a better option than MU or CZ.

Certainly don't mind the detour to Taipei. I've had a few folks now share positive CI opinions. I'll look into that option.


I did look into KE out of ICN, but was not getting any availability for my dates. I would've picked that option w/o question as I've heard great things about their new product.

Flew LAX-TPE one way on an award ticket in J last month using 80k Skymiles.

New 77W with a GORGEOUS CABIN--one of the nicest J cabins I have ever been in. Service was good, food was good.

I chose this flight to avoid transiting in china and will definitely try again if I need to route to Asia using Skymiles.

OP I would always suggest flying the foreign carrier even if prices weren't so far. But in your case it's an no brainer.

Since your DL plat I think you should give other airlines an chance so you can come back and talk about your experience. Whether it's good or bad.

MU long haul C a few days ago was exactly what I expected. Same as BR across the board. Exact same seats. Prefer these to the KE 2-2-2 on the Airbe or the older DL 777.

Service and food was fine, though as always Asian carries do not quite grasp that Westerners drink more fluids than Asians.

Regional though was more like a DL domestic F. Nothing wrong with it, but not for sleeping.

At PVG the new central MU club had a nice food selection but was otherwise somewhat plain. And I also had the not uncommon experience of sitting on the tarmack for two hours waiting for air clearance.

The one negative I would note is that checking in at JFK (after connecting from ATL) was a comedy show. Took 20 minutes, and this was after having already done the psuedo on line check-in. The agent ripped up 5 incorrect BPs in the process. [DL will not print these so you must hit the TA counter]

Overall I would fly MU if it saves some cash and I am not on a tight schedule.

Which flight suffered the 2-hour hold? Domestic or onward regional international, or long-haul?

PVG->BKK (which is a regional international in my book).

I assume they prioritize the long haul flights?

For incoming flights, long haul gets priority (because they don't want planes to run out of fuel while they fly in circles).

Outbound flights are generally treated equally by Shanghai ATC, but are subject to flow controls on their specific routes. In the case of SE Asia, the first ~1.5 hours of the flight use the same corridor as CAN/HKG/SZX/MFM/etc, which is among the busiest in China. Flights to Japan/Korea, by contrast, are generally okay from a flow control standpoint.

Thanks moondog.

So I can assume PVG->US is fairly safe.

But I should add a risk factor into my schedule for CAN->US?

EDIT: On another issue, a DL member should check the DL partner award table. China Eastern will often pay you twice as many MQMs as Southern when redeeming to a DL number. Not a trivial issue on these very long routes.

That's what I wa afraid of. I have a few of those coming up. My last one, the other way, resulted in a weather diversion to Hongqiao. Horror show ensued. Having suffered once, now thinking a higher price for another carrier may be worth it to avoid weather and ATC issues at PVG. But DL treats MU as a Tier 1 partner, so tons of MQM's and RDM's on offer for flying with MU.

CAN-US flights typically avoid the HK-SH corridor because they vector their way towards the ocean before heading towards Tokyo.

Furthermore, ground stops are less common in CAN than PVG, so I would say CAN is the safest bet if you're flying to SE Asia.

But a lot of people seem to contemplate backtracking via either to Japan or Korea. In such cases, Shanghai wins (if you must connect in China) because we're talking about ~4 hours less flying, which is significantly greater than Shanghai ground stops.

Also the DL MQDs on MU when on an MU ticket are huge. This normally does not matter to me as I carry a DL AMEX, but can in some cases.

I just recently have seen some very nice prices ex JFK pop up on the MU web site. Have not yet figured out the details as far as tacking on the ATL leg and fare basis. Do not see these on google flights (which I assume is now just a cosmetic wrapper on IATA Matrix).

You can't book transpac F using DL miles.

Yes, but if we are talking MU the F product does not look to be worth that much more than the C product anyway. The front C cabin is fairly nice with 2 rows of 1-2-1.

I would not pay more than about $100 O
W over C for F.

I'm in the same boat. I just buy the ATL-JFK positioning tix separately.

UPDATE:

Due to a schedule change with my return flight to HND, I was able to change to NRT w/o issue. Booked a positioning flight to TPE w/ Cathay and secured a 90k CI flight from TPE-LAX in Business... I couldn't be happier with the hard product. As mentioned above, the cabin is GORGEOUS. I flew Delta One earlier this year HND-MSP and this is just bigger/better/more. The space. I'm 6'2 and my feet were a bit cramped in DL_One, far from it here. Giant screen, decent wifi speeds, good meal, good drinks. Attentive FAs. The only thing, and I'm nitpicking here, is that I asked for another bottle of water and they offer to fill my glass as they don't have bottles to give out...
Love it.

Thank you all for the recs here. The TPE CI was the way to go. The only thing that I'm upset about was due to the big storm earlier, my flight into TPE was delayed and I didn't have enough time to check out the T1 CI Club as I've heard wonderful reviews on it. NEXT TIME!^^

Were you able to find the transit counters in TPE okay?

The T1 Club has now deteriorated cause CI wanted to save money and outsourced to other catering company. You didn't really miss anything other than the decoration.

I took it slow, but yes, in the end found the transit counters. Such a much larger operation than TYO. Found someone who did the trip last week who gave some good pointers.

The T2 Club reminded me of the SkyClubs at ATL that are at the tips of the terminals - Long and skinny...Showers were decent and the sweet potatoes and buns were also good.

Aiming to use my SkyMiles for China Airlines Business class as well. Who did you book the ticket through at 90,000 miles?

I'd love to take the Korean Air ICN to ATL flight back using miles, but I cannot justify the now 95,000 SkyMiles cost for their 2-3-2 old business product, as nice as direct would be.

Also, if you're -very- flexible on dates you can fly direct on business saver for 80,000 on Delta One out of Shanghai, Tokyo, or Seoul but I have a hard time flying Delta when I am more interested in trying better, interesting foreign airlines for business class.

I'll probably settle on TPE-JFK, then buy a separate ticket to ATL. I am based in SE Asia mostly though, so tempting to try Air France business from SIN to LHR, or Vietnam for SGN to LHR for a totally different routing.