bzcat

They didn't order 14+6 A359 to just replace 6 A343

Some of the order/options were destined to be converted to A351 to replace 744 but that plan appears to have changed.

Another angle to look at this is that CI was evaluating 77F and A332F a while back... I think we will now probably see an order for 77F soon based on the 77W selection on the passenger side.

coolfish1103

Those Virgin planes have been returned already.

Currently no more Premium Economy in their fleet.

They indicated they will start receiving the 77Ws in 2014 and 359 in 2016, so pretty sure they get their 77Ws first. Just not all of them.

It kind of makes one wonder that they took down First in JFK and now they have to put it back and re-market. Though obviously the new product should be better than the existing ones on 744.

The 359s are fine replacements for 343 and 333. Even the 77Ws are okay to replacement for some in certain destinations.

Staggered 2-3-2? I guess they can fit more seats in that configuration but the width will be pretty narrow... though it does provide some sort of a differences...

tris06

I am interested to see so many loyal boeing people here. I agree with the 778 purchase but it makes no sense to purchase more and canc their a350-900 slots. The point being if u want the latest a greatest u need to book early and wait. Now assuming the a350 performs as they.expect then it will be. A more economical plane due to its light wieght. They have suffered thelong wait to be close to the front of the line only to give it up when they are getting closer. 777 is a good plane but in 10years it will be out performed by the a350's and 787 and back to having inefficient planes. atleast the 787 and a350 will be competive for 15+ years.

Forgive my spelling errors using touch screen mobile.

lolstebbo

It'll be more narrow, but I'm sure CI's bean counters will probably decide it's more favorable since they can squeeze more of those in the cabin than they could herringbone seats.


I'm just loyal to the Queen of the Skies.

bzcat

CI is buying the 77W for immediate delivery (well within 18 months) so 15+ years is kind of irrelevant. CI is also getting more A330 but I guess that will also get "out performed" in 10 years... but point being CI would have operated it for 10 years while it is competitive.

CI has a habit of buying late production wide body planes once all the performance enhancements have been baked in. In contrast to say SQ or NH that likes to be the first in line. CI was late to A300 B4, late to A300-600, late to A330-300, took a lot of late production 744, and now late to the 77W game. The 77W that CI will be getting is far more optimized than the earlier deliveries and it will be a good plane for a long time. The only other time (beside A350) that CI placed order on wide body before the plane entered service was on MD-11 and I think they fully regretted that decision.

tris06

Yes I agree china airlines tend to buy late in the life of planes. But I am saying what they have already done. In 2008 when they made the order i might have had a different thought. They are near the front but still seems to be 20-30 planes before there turn comes up. One would hope 90-95% of bugs and such will be sorted out by then. The fact is if china airlines was to order say 6+ 4 options already talked about +another 14 planes. You will be looking at a 2016-2018 order. At this time I don't think you want to be flying aluminium planes much past 2020. Even the A330's will be ready for replacement by 2022+ apart from the 5-6 newest editions.

Though I had been thinking if they didnt want to replace them by 2020-2022 surely they will need to do a cabin refurbishment on the older one 2003-2008 models. Ok getting back on topic.

Md-11's was a issue because it was probably one of the worse mistakes they could of made due to the fact 2 engine planes could fly over longer distances of sea/ocean. And they made it again to some extent with the a340 which was not ordered early on. I think its pretty hard to conclude from just 1 bad experience.

Can you think the Md-11 issue could happen again with the number of engines? The only thing i can see is yes if they have bugs. But i think the risk is acceptable.

wolfy187

spoke to the wife.. they havent selected the chief captain or crew that will be going to seattle to recieve training yet. so this is at least 18mo-24mo out before they are operational... i know there were rumors inside CI about who would go and who would want to take this new position. but we will see how it goes.

tommy525

They could hire some foreign pilots in the interim.

coolfish1103

Is CI late on the A330-300 bandwagon? Not too sure about that.

I think they regretted A340-300 too?

bzcat

I'm pretty sure all of CI's 330 are later built model with higher MTOW. CI ordered A340 first and later converted some options to A330.

A340 was purchased to replace MD11, which is kind of ironic if you think about it... they could have been a 777 operator the whole time if they just waited a few more years back in the early 90s.

1. CI choose MD11 instead of 777.
2. CI choose A340 instead of 777 to replace MD11.
3. CI choose A350 instead of 777 (ok, it was over 787 but I'm sure Boeing offered them 777 as well).
4. CI purchases 777 to replace A340.

tris06

The first 9 a330's China airlines had delivered are the older version. And because of their limited ranges and higher density seating you will find them only on asian routes up to 4-5hrs in length.

First plane was delivered in 2003/2004.

lolstebbo

I think that, by the time they ordered the A359s, it was more like CI took a long time either to give up on their fear of long-haul ETOPS or to realize that they had no choice but to deal with it.

sl0uch

+1 re: airlines who had no fear/respect for ETOPS (BR, NH and many others) appear a little less screwed today in their fleet planning, it seems.

CI, like TG and many others, bought Airbus' sales talk at the time.
i.e. The A330/340 is a complete offering for 250-400 pax, 4engines4longhaul, no middle seat in J, we're european we're superior to americans blablabla.

I remember SK, on sasflightops.com, cited the 343 being easier to fill as the reason they didn't order the 777 - well I'd like to know how the cost worked out for them now with the A340's thirst!?

I don't think it's just a matter of who gave the deeper discount. These airlines always bought multiple variants, tried so hard to reap commonality benefits - I think they really saw sense in this, 'cause those who went with the 777 somehow weren't such a stickler for cockpit commonality, hmm I wonder why?

Certain bean counters probably did less due diligence than we assume they'd do. But then the 345+346 both entered service underperforming, and later oil prices went up. Hmm. :P

username

I am no ariplane expert and here are some of my guess/thoughts...
.
At one point, CI had the 767s. Then it ditched them for the A300s. I am not sure if it was due to economic/technical or political reasons. (The thing that peopel in TW talked about was the CI bought all the French planes and BR ended up getting CDG.)

If the reason was technical, maybe that somehow worked against the 777 - even though they are very different planes from different eras?

Or, the whole thing could be political - Boeing got the 747s and Airbus got the 340s. CI, being government owned, had to do some of these things that complicated their fleet. I think this practice lasted until the 1990s?

I guess another reason for the 747s was cargo. With a lot of manufacturing moving away from Taiwan, the numbers probably no longer work?

Another reaons might be that the 777-300 ERs are performing better than expected. When BR ordered the 777s, some were for the LR. Then they realized the 300ERs can do TPE-NYC...

username

I know some here don't like people harping on CI's safety records.

I think a lot of the fear is on the passenger side. Hopefully (knock on wood) CI has passed the "curse". There are still people in Taiwan who refuse to fly CI - a lot fewer now than say 10 years ago but still...

The poor safety record lasted a long time and it will take a long time for people to feel as comfortable with CI as with other carriers with better records.