allergictocoach

I would like to add that the I'll guess 10 transactions I have made in CC over the past few years have always ended with positive results. I think that would also be the case for the majority of the folks using the Board. I would agree that a separate place for discussion of trade values may be appropriate. The forum has been ripe lately with "pundits" that find it necessary to comment or evaluate each request and there is no place for that. I have seen warnings about these types of posts and always figured violators were dealt with by the Mods.

I also think GC's are a perfectly acceptable method of completing a transaction and agree with the statements before noting that they are almost akin to an airline voucher sans the expiry date. The main angle I see people getting upset over is the "professionals" using the Board and the way that GC's may help their cause. To put a stop to this I would encourage folks to know who they are trading with to the extent possible. Research posts in other forums to determine who contributes (and who doesn't) and establish phone or e-mail contact with your trading partner. Feel free to ask for references from past trades. In most cases it will be pretty obvious if you are dealing with a Flyertalker that has a common need or a "professional" trying to make a profit.

Certainly the CC is a lot bigger than it used to be as a lot of things in this world are. That doesn't really mean that it's broken either. It's still a great venue to receive/provide last minute assistance that can oft be quantified in $$$, time and convenience. I for one was able to complete a trade for IB points on a short MAD-PNA flight in less than an hour with 3 e-mails on the day of my trip. That 37 min. flight was so much better than the 5 hour bus ride that was the alternative and at about the same cost. I later found out that my trading partner handled the whole thing from a movie theater....thank goodness for the ability to surf CC during a bad movie. In any case, it wouldn't have been possible w/o the worldwide resources of the FT community.

With that said I don't think CC is too far off kilter. Take away the negative pundit posts and let people be responsible for themselves and decide with who and for what they would like to trade for. The fact that you can trade for a RTW ticket in F and not just drink chits is a good thing - we just need to do it with civility and common sense.

cepheid

I agree with your first 2 points; I disagree with this one entirely, for all the reasons stated in the appropriate thread on CC (which is admittedly inaccessible at the moment).

It wouldn't invite controversy if 3rd-party commentary were prohibited. I don't think this thread is the appropriate place to continue the "H: karma" discussion, but suffice it to say that I do not believe there is a preponderance of such threads, especially not so much as to cause a problem, and that IMHO I haven't seen anyone "abusing" CC with such threads. If 3rd-party commentary were disallowed, such threads would or would not get responses the exact same way that any other thread (be it offer or giveaway) would get responses: based on interest. Controversy: averted.

True, although one would hope responders would be honest... or, at least, that honest responses would outnumber dishonest ones. Then again, as per above, I'd be just as happy to see that thread go away and let any trade participant interested in determining a market value do so with his/her own research.

UCBeau

I agree with you 100%, it would be a way for those threads where people are asking for free stuff to remain and there would be no debate within them. Perhaps the idea of the discussion forum would be where people could debate (endlessly) the merits of such types of threads.

In any case after reading the varying views in this thread it seems like CC is a fundamentally good idea especially for this type of website (it's a travel forum, remember?) and therefore might only need a few tweaks or alterations in order for it to continue as a way for people to exchange resources and enhance their travel experiences. I have faith Randy will do what he feels is best for this great website.

robandmichele

i don't post very often, and it took me many years to accumulate enough posts to qualify for CC. nevertheless, i was really excited the day that CC became available to me.

i suppose since that was only a little while ago, i was mostly disappointed.

as someone who didn't see the "good old days", i was pretty intimidated by what i would describe as the more commercial aspect of how it felt. and despite wanting to try a trade for some expiring instruments, decided to just give them to someone at work.

some of it may also have been because when i answered a post WRT upgrades for military personnel, i received PM's directly asking me to give them freebie upgrades. maybe that's normal for some people, but it was pretty scary for me. CC was probably even scarier.

anyway, i applaud the decommercializing of CC. and i hope that it comes back soon.

dlflyer2

I enjoy Flyertalk immensely with Coupon Connection being only one of the many facets that brings pleasure and sometimes unexpected benefits.

I've had a number of transactions on Coupon connection where I've been able to mutually gift, donate or receive the benefits of others kindness.

Most members of the FT community enjoy sharing the wealth of their experiences and occasionally the rewards of their travels with others, particularly if those rewards would otherwise expire or not be used. All the better if there is a way to do it so that each party feels a mutual satisfaction with the outcome. It is up to the parties to agree on the value of a transaction to each party.

In any community, there are those that operate outside the rules and dictates of good taste, but that usually becomes evident as the discussions continue. If either party feels that a transaction is not to their benefit or outside their comfort zone, they are free to withdraw.

Public debates as to the value of things offered in exchange or one's valuation of various item is probably better discussed in a different forum to avoid comments that can appear as personal attacks or be construed as such. A discussion forum could serve as an introduction for newer members to get an appreciation of how Coupon Connection functions.

giggy

N: healthcare W: grandchildren to pay for it Maybe Randy will do it the govt way Haven't been traveling lately but I always liked CC. I must have missed whatever caused a timeout. Sure seems to me that the solution has been and is in place already. Ignor nitwits. If someone steals a post with irrelevant chatter, they are most likely bored and have too much free time on their hands. Just close the thread, and wait a day or two. Best of luck gang

sunil

CC has been a valuable benefit to long time FT members like myself. I've used it to exchange award tickets during family emergencies and even for weddings. It would be sad to see it taken away. I'm fine with raising the entry bar to CC and even restricting the trading of certain items but please don't throw the baby out with the bath water !

Randy Petersen

and no one said they were. What i am saying is that i want the uncivilness of certain conversations to be thrown out with the bath water. Best way to look at this is pretend you've been on a biz trip and the next time up on FT you might have missed entirely that the forum was closed for a brief moment. Thanks for understanding.

Randy Petersen

And it's the very members such as yourself I'm trying to find a suitable solution for. While some of our members "get it", at times they can forget that most really don't, and because of that, it's really OK to make a statement, as I'm doing that we need to do a better job at managing our members experience as it relates to this. This is not new, it has been going on for a while and we've been trying different approaches, some of which have been working. My challenge is and has been to do something that can really speed up this change and speed up a return to civilness on some area without infringing upon our normal members use of this great benefit.

I think it clear from the members whose comments i have posted to those who have posted here that there is an actual awareness that we as FlyerTalk can make this forum work better. Some would think it's just the job of our moderators. I'm here to say that is not the solution. They have and will continue to assist, but there's a point in time where our members have to take responsibility for the look and feel of this forum and I'm hoping that even those who still believe there is nothing wrong with CC, could at least acknowledge that there does seem to be a sincere interest in this issue from any number of our members.

Without belaboring too much on this, at this point I like several of the suggestions by our members, some of which marry up well with ideas from our volunteer moderators. When I see that everyone see the possibility to be on a single page, then life is great.

Right now I think you'll see CC return to live action no later than a week from now and certainly the goal is sooner.

Thanks for the input and thanks for actually wanting some change for the future success of the forum. And the good news is that the change really can be quite minimal, mostly behavior rather than operational.

See you all next week in CC. I'm now looking to see if there's anything lately crossed my desk that i can freely give away to my fellow FlyerTalkers.

trekwars2000

Agreed. CC it not a forum I go too a ton unless I am about to go out on a business trip and might have needed a SWU, lounge pass, drink chits or something similar.

skywalkerLAX

Hi all !

I got some questions in how far the Talk Board was involved in this matter. We were not consulted and therefore can't answer specific questions about the process.

This will be a temporary thing as per Randy (above) so lets breath a week and see what arises out of this.

Cheers,
S

cepheid

I was under the impression that CC wasn't part of TB's purview anyway... is that incorrect?

skywalkerLAX

TB is an advisory panel - execution of whatever is up to the operator of FT. However in this case there was no input given by TB members.

Some Flyertalkers assumed that or had a question about this, therefore I found it important to mention.

Cheers,
S

holtju2

Like when the OMNI was opened up?

gof

I'll post my 2 cents here with some ideas. CC has mainly been an more recent thing for me, although one kind soul long ago gave me a short expiring SWU for a westcoast-ORD upgrade on a red-eye for which I'll always be thankful ^^ I've completed a few other trades and despite my comments in the "low-ball" thread, I didn't get much for them (but the value, "to me and at the time", was acceptable which is the point I was trying to make in the thread). So in reading the posts above, a few comments.

1. Consider not allowing ANY posts other than the OP in CC threads. Odd idea you say? Not at all. People can PM offers (most posts are simply "YHPM" anyway). In that way there will be no uncivil comments, no trashing, no "bidding", etc. If the offers the OP is getting is not appropriate, they can, once per calendar day, post a follow up to adjust their request (I don't know if they can adjust the title though?). This will do two things. One, allow sufficient time to let people see what is asked for and offer and for the OP to decide if it matches their needs. Two, it will sufficiently slow down the process to avoid issues with "pros" working the system fast. True, they can discuss a lot via PM, but that's a private matter.

2. When the OP posts to close a thread, they can have the opportunity to PM the terms of the deal to be collected into a history of trades. The danger here is the airlines/hotels/etc might start perking up ears at the volume of trades posted. A range summary might be better offered back to the community rather than individual trades (which might also be more accurately tracked and audited).

3. Don't try to offer "suggested" values. Supply and demand rules the world and any attempt otherwise is foolish. Someone with a last minute need/desire for a SWU is likely to be more willing to go high than someone looking at a flight 330 days out. Likewise, the person with a credit voucher that expires tomorrow is more likely to act like the tree salesman on Christmas Eve (for example, I suspect a surge in 3P's available once CC opens up again due to the timing of the DEQM posting). The range in between is endless. I did like the suggestion though to compile a list of "standard" exchange rates. These are usually available in each program's forum FAQ. So listing the cost to buy miles from American is surely fair game as this puts more of a retail price on things where such a price is openly available. Note that many things don't have such a price (e.g., you can't buy a CR-1, but you can purchase E500's).

4. Add a CC "Discussion" subforum to allow people to discuss, at length, the comparitive value of a SWU with Southwest travel credits, complete with time-till-expiration depreciation tables, phase of moon, etc. It might be good though as it could highlight how to migrate value one already has to another form without the need for a trade.

5. Add a CC "H: Karma" subforum. Only allow "W:____ H: Karma" postings. Sort of like a Klein Bottle for them (anyone read Heinlein). People with something to give away are free to look in here, but those who want to give away for free ("H:something W: Karma") should post in the main CC forum. That way those who are offended by the requests won't have to see them, but the generous can see them if desired, while all offers are still in the main CC forum.

6. Increasing post count/time/ratio requirements. I'll leave that up to the insight of Randy. I just ask that it be below my stats

7. GC's? No opinion, although it does obviously monitize the system to some degree. I think tracking GC's is very hard and people using them to game the system risk little. If someone is buying miles (expensive I agree) or trying to credit out a refundable ticket (on vouchers? Most would automatically go back to CC) are likely to be putting a red flag on their heads.

8. Otherwise, Kudo's to all who've taken the time to participate on CC, to Randy for setting it up, and also to all those who care enough to voice their opinion, either here or to Randy directly. It allows him to understand what CC means to the community and how we (or at least most of us) appreciate the service it provides.