Raffles

Here's one from today. I was looking at booking an award flight from London to Salzburg, Austria. This is not a long way.

The taxes and fuel surcharges for an Austrian Airways flight were £148 ($300). This is for Economy. Per ticket. A Lufthansa routing via FRA came in at £160 taxes + charges.

This is totally out of hand. Ryanair will sell me a ticket for a direct London to Salzburg flight for under £100 return, and that is after all of Ryanair's silly little extra charges and I won't be spending any miles (although I will be getting up early - its a 6am departure ....).

thadocta

Actually, Australia doesn't have all-inclusive fares, only all-inclusive advertised fares. So an airline is perfectly at liberty to quote a fare of AUD200, which is composed of a fare of AUD10, plus AUD190 in TLC's*. These TLC's* being passed on to award bookings as well.

This I agree with - in the case above, instead of a fare of AUD10 with a YQ charge of AUD40, (with award bookings being slugged for AUD40), it should be AUD50 (with award bookings not being slugged with a YQ charge at all).

TLC's* outside of the carriers control I think they should pass on - airport charges, government charges, etc - but a fuel levy? It is part of the operating cost, and should be part of the fare.

Dave

* TLC - Taxes, Levies & Charges

flysurfer

Why are carriers raising fuel surcharges instead of raising fares?
That's an easy one: Because company discounts only apply to the fare portion, not to the surcharge portion of a fare. So a $10 raise in surcharges earns the airline more money than a $10 fare raise, especially with frequent flying business customers. Plus, they can add these surcharges to awards w/o changing an attractive-looking award chart.

Why are surcharges lower for some cheap Economy fares than they are for award flights on the same route/carrier or for more expensive fares on the same route/carrier?
Carriers like LH need catchy fares for advertisement reasons, like a EUR 99 domestic roundtrip. If they applied the full set of surcharges to such an offer, the fare basis would have to be negative (like -25 EUR) in order to achieve the desired advertised price. For FTers, this would be a means to literally print money: Just cancel the ticket and get a higher amount of taxes/fees/surcharges back on your CC account than what you actually paid for the entire ticket (taxes/fees/surcharges plus negative fare) in the first place. Remember: the fare portion of such tickets is non-refundable, the taxes/fees/surcharges portion is, at least with LH. Hence, LH and others are sometimes tampering with the surcharges in order to avoid zero or even negative fares.

Kiwi Flyer

Australia does have fuel surcharges. Check out your fare breakdown or see how much "taxes" an award costs. The advertising rule merely (slightly) reduces the problem by making sure the cost is not unexpected (on paid fares).

A_Lee

I completely agree with Beaubo. Traveling primarily outside the U.S. for many years I've seen these fuel surcharges introduced and raised to the point where absolutely something needs to be done about it. It is absolutely a scam by the airlines to try to get more money out of award tickets and even out of revenue tickets. It is a totally shameful practice but unfortunately it is almost universally practiced outside the U.S. so any airline not participating will be at a disadvantage because the general masses will compare prices or award miles without factoring in this absolutely huge additional cost.

The situation seems to not be an issue inside the U.S. at the present and hopefully won't be in the future but something needs to be done about this globally. Unfortunately there is no global organization I don't think that could do anything about this practice. It would have to be up to individual countries in enact legislation barring these practices. I'd like to see countries ban airlines from flying in unless they abided by fair practices, such as not charging these ridiculous fuel surcharges - but I know that's only wishful thinking and will likely never happen. But maybe if enough countries do enact legislation it will have a domino effect and most countries will follow suit and/or airlines will voluntarily drop the surcharges.

Randy, I'm not sure why you can't see this for what it is unless you don't fly much outside the U.S. For most international travelers it is very clear what the airlines are doing.

holtju2

Maybe Randy has a problem with this issue because most of the ads on his magazine are paid by the companies questioned here?

nsx

You obviously don't know Randy. He always gives you his honest opinion, and let the chips fall where they may.

holtju2

Obviously I don't know him personally. What I have learned over the years, however, is that business is business.

nsx

Randy's not your average businessman. He's generous to a fault, and he tries to do the right thing, not merely the most profitable thing. Take my word for it, or ask anyone else who knows him and you'll get the same answer. Also, if you've ever seen pictures of him in action, he certainly does not dress the part of the greedy capitalist.

thadocta

Agreed - having met him (and more importantly, spoken to him at length) I agree that he would not sell his soul on this issue.

Dave

beaubo

To refocus on the issue at hand, Flyertalk has enough critical mass of members and the proven ability to mobilize and organize about important FFP issues.

I think the key issue at this point is to try and lobby RP for a SYSTEMATIC strategy to generate exposure about this issue.

Suggestion #1:
Create a survey on the FT home page "QUIK AIR POLL' that focuses on fuel surcharges.
* Should fuel surcharges be levied on award tickets?
* Are you aware that internatioinal fuel surcharges can exceed $350?
* Are you aware that airlines lump fuel surcharges as part of overall airline 'taxes'?
* Would your airline charging fduel surcharges on award tickets influence your choice of FFP?
* ETC.....OTHER IDEAS

Suggestion #2:
Have HOM post a 'sticky' poll with similar questions as above on every airline forum to insure maximum exposure. Keep it sticky for a couple of weeks.

Suggestion #3:
Have HOM post a 'sticky' thread that invites feedback about fuel surcharges on award tickets in every airline forum to insure maximum exposure. Keep it sticky for a couple of weeks.

I think these strategies will help centralize and magnify attention for the fuel surcharge issue...and make it much more convenient for potential media sources to cover.

Suggestion #4:
A regular member could start threads on every forum about fuel surcharges, but potentially runs the risk of being considered cross-posting and will be delted by Mods. So, maybe HOM will decide if they don't want to lead this initiative, that they will permit a regular member to do so, by advising the Mods that cross-posting on this issue has been given a waiver.

FWIW:
Most recent fuel surcharges:
LH $270 NYC-MUC-ATH RT
BD $360 BOM-CDG-JFK RT
AF $280 LAX-LHR RT

AHO

ANA (http://www.ana.co.jp/eng/dms/fare/insurance/index2.html)
For tickets issued on/after July 01, 2008
Japan=Europe, North America, Middle East: USD 253 / one way
Have you ever seen such ridiculous amount for one segment?

f4free

I am also greatly disturbed by the practice airlines, especially European ones, have increasingly used over the last few years. I also think we should differentiate between surcharges on paid tickets, and those on award travel.

Generally, I find it very clear that in any case, these surcharges are a form of misleading advertisement. Often miscommunicated as "taxes" - not in clear correlation with actual cost increases (fuel hedging, ...) - often not reflected in advertised fares - etc. In cases where fuel surcharges of one flight total to an amount higher than the entire fuel consumption of the aircraft with the higher costs, something is really wrong.

I do not dispute the need for airlines to generate more revenue to cover increased costs. But the "how" needs to adjusted. And there is a need for more transparency to allow the market to play. (Some airlines refund F.S. - some don't.)

Similar to the EU regulating roaming charges on mobile phones, this could be an area of required action. (Limiting them by imposing a maximum time frame, maximum amount, requirement of full refund if the flight is not taken, or eliminating them in return for increased fares - or a combination of all this).

So, we could move to encourage such legal action.

Or, a "label" could be established - similar to an "honor code" for airlines regarding such surcharges. I am not against them in general, but I am against abusive ways of airlines to use these airlines to generate cash "under the radar screen of the consumer". This could also be launched under the initiative of Inside Flyer.

As for fuel surcharges on award tickets, I feel very very strongly these are just wrong. If the cost of flying goes up, mileage level should increase in line with the increased costs. But free flights should be free, not a hidden form of "cash and miles". Regularly taxes on LH and KLM/Air France or others for award tickets are higher than for paid tickets, or even higher than total paid tickets with F&S. That's abusive. It's taking an excessive amount of money from the frequent flyer - and has nothing to do with taxes.

Here something really needs to happen. I would hope for legal framework disallowing "fuel" surcharges or any other non-governmental or airport authority related taxes for award travel. The surcharges have taken away the "free" from what is advertised as earned "free" travel in exchange for loyalty. I feel cheated and abused by these fees. Increase the required mileage by 10k for flight, but don't charge me 200€ in surcharges for a r/t from northern to southern Europe.

Again I don't oppose paying more if fuel costs are higher. But it needs to be in a way the market can operate, and free tickets need to be free tickets.

I welcome any initative to help resolve this problem, and thank Randy and the other posters for everything ...

holtju2

IMHO it could be more visible to just start a website devoted to this i.e. saveourawards.com. Shouldn't cost much but would be far more practical way to get the attention of the airlines and traveling public.

nsx

Airlines are in a struggle to survive, and may be temporarily blind to the long-term damage they do to themselves by devaluing their loyalty programs. Bringing this problem to their attention could be a win-win.