Moderator Do
 

Thanks, Randy for your input.

The Moderator Do sounds really exciting. Is there a thread where FlyerTalkers can submit questions, concerns, and ideas for the agenda? What an amazing opportunity for the Moderators to deal with the general FT public's needs.

Have they developed a vehicle for offering feedback on their progress in dealing with specific FT issues?

Is it possible to have a Moderator DO where the general membership is invited to participate in constructive dialogue? What a tremendous growth opportunity that would be for both FT and its moderators.

Why on earth would they want to subject themselves to something like that? It seems all the issues have been discussed here already at great length. I think what they are doing with the private DO is a great idea. They can enjoy themselves and at the same time, discuss issues without having to deal with the crap they do everyday when they are trying to moderate the forums.

It seems only logical to me that the moderators would very much welcome feedback from the general FlyerTalk public, just as we all seek feedback from our employees, clients, etc. How can we do an effective job of serving if we don't understand how the people we serve feel about our service?

But I know moderators get a lot of feedback as they go along from us... either us *****ing and whining about what they have done, or thanking/praising them (and I bet that's a lot less common), so I don't see what the point would be in seeking it out, when any thread of that nature is sure to become a flamefest in about ohhh 3 posts... surely you've seen that happen in threads on ORP often enough to understand why it might not be the best of ideas? If you've got concerns (and I'm sure everyone knows that you do), why don't you pm your nearest friendly moderator with them, and ask that they take them privately to the do, to be addressed if the opportunity occurs. Taking it off board makes it a lot less confrontational, and allows the mods to be less defensive about it...

Anyway, it's their Do. I'd be pretty mad if someone who wasn't coming to one of my Do's tried to arrange what was happening at it.... they are big boys and girls! (well most of them ;))

It is a pity that people do often become unnecessarily hostile in ORP and often, very interesting and valuable discussions become sidetracked by that hostility.

Despite that unhappy occurrence, it is, however, possible to have meaningful, constructive dialogue. One topic I would very much like to see addressed is Moderator Guidelines.

What, for instance, constitutes a suspendable offense? It is confusing to see some folks issued lifetime suspensions for making very logical, polite posts, while others repeatedly make rather vicious and unkind posts without any apparent repercussions. It would be very helpful to have clear guidelines.

Hey, Pukie, why not just e-mail Randy all your wonderful ideas, as they have no place being aired on a public forum, I believe that Randy has not only expressed this several times in general, but several times directly to you personally. Are you too "special" to abide by Randy's wishes?

Punki is special ... she's an "Original Member" who has seen FT grow in leaps and bounds and while we differ from time-to-time on ideas of what's next and how to handle certain members and issues, I'm still game to listen. Listening is a big part of what I do here on FT. At the end of the day I don't always have to agree, but I do have to listen.

As well, I have corrected your typo ... it's "Punki" not "Pukie."

I am deleting this post as Randy took care of the problem.

Since Mod.'s paying their own way to this Vegas do, I'm hoping they do something else but dwell on FT the whole time. ;) It'd be a shame to be in sin city and not be even a little sinful. :D

Randy, this child has for the last year or two deliberately spelled my name wrong whenever she was feeling particularly sanctimonious, I just thought I'd return the childishness and would return the favour.

Of course the great irony is the fact that you actually (in)corrected it to 'Punkie' ;)

Answer to Punki's question
 

Punki, your question was a natural one to ask and let me go over a few things first:
- the idea of a ModDo came totally from the minds of our volunteers who continue to give back to the community. It looks like the first of another later this year so I think it's not meant to try and go over every single item, but rather form a base from which moderators can establish common tools and communication in helping members.
- This marks the first time that many will have been able to get together and discuss things with me. While we've had a few live chats, nothing beats being able to have an open dialog of FlyerTalk.
- In my mind, this is a training session to develop consistent tools and tutorials for FT mods now and into the future. I don't sense it's a ***** session.
- A great part of the mods work is helping new members acclimate themselves to FT. We'll likely chat about more "newbie" things we can do.
- The mods will tell you that I'm not likely to allow and devote time to talking about individual members.
- They are all coming paying their own way. This is one Do that isn't as much social as more giveback to the Community. All members should benefit from the standards that we hope to finally introduce.
- Your idea isn't a bad one, but the timing just is not right ... the first ModDo ever.
- I am more than comfortable that these individuals who devote more than an average members time on FT are aware of the issues which should be on the agenda.

Its rare in any online community to see this type of action from the moderators and we should all be very impressed of their commitment to FlyerTalk and beyond.

For me it will be a real eye opener. I barely have met any of the mods and it will certainly give them time to get to know me a little bit and how i think about FT, mods and our membership in general.

Sound OK?

Thanks, Randy.

You are most certainly right that FlyerTalk is a unique and wonderful community--one that has changed my life forever. I still remember back when there were only a hundred or so regular posters, and when we first started planning the PIP. My sisters were horrified that I was going to fly to Hawaii to meet a bunch of "internet" people. They were certain that you were all a bunch of axe murderers.

What an amazing experience that was, and, thank you very much for convincing Hunki that this frequent flyer stuff isn't totally crazy. We can both fly in first a lot more often since you convinced him to become a 1k as well. :D :D

Since then, I have met at least 400 amazing and wonderful FlyerTalkers all over the world, and traveled with some FlyerTalkers to as many as eight different countries on four different continents. How cool is that?

I don't think there are any other websites like ours, so it only stands to reason that there aren't any other moderators like ours. I sincerly hope that this first Moderator Do weekend is productive and successful, and that each Moderator Do to come improves upon the results of its predecessor.

OBTW, is your lovely bride joining you for the weekend, or is she taking the weekend as a Nordstrom opportunity? ;)

We we are flying to NYC for the weekend so I can indulge in my once-a-year Stage Deli Pastrami Reuben (the only red meat I eat all year) and a night of dancing in the Big Apple. Who would ever have even considered such a thing prior to a serious FlyerTalk immersion. :)

Like I said, FT has changed our lives forever. Lucky us. I will give you more details when we retire.

Any feedback?

Thanks for asking.
It was a pleasure meeting Randy and his lovely wife. As well, it was also wonderful putting faces to "handles." Most of all, I am now convinced that when Randy selected the moderators who attended the "Do," he chose, very well. How nice to break bread (or tapas) with a group of people whose primary agenda is to give to others.

Good company, good food and good drinks. Oh yeah, we talked a bit about moderation too :)

Julie is indeed lovely, but my question really was, is there any feedback on any progress that was made in clarifying the moderator guidelines?

I have seen several instances where folks were banned for making very polite, logical posts, that in no way violated the TOS, and other instances where posters who launched vicious personal attacks on other FlyerTalkers, a clear TOS violation, where no action was taken, even when those attacks were properly reported.

Obviously there are always judgment calls involved in moderation and 99% of the time the FlyerTalk moderators do a great job, but there are those times when folks get suspended or banned for reasons that are not clearly stated in the TOS. It would very be helpful to all--both the moderators and the general FT public--to know what is and is not a bannable/suspendible offense before they were banned/suspended.

For instance, Randy has indicated that he does not want people to talk about moderator actions, because that is discussing specific FlyerTalkers. The only logical interpretation of that statement is that he doesn't want people to complain about, or praise, specific moderation actions, but it certainly does not include general discussions of moderation, including questions like, "What is a bannable offense?" or "What are the moderator guildelines?"

If what he meant was "Under no circumstances is anyone permitted to ask any questions (no matter how polite or logical) about moderation, or make any suggestion (no matter how intelligent or thoughtful) regarding, moderation", then that should be clearly stated in the TOS as a bannable TOS violation, so people would know the rules of the game.

As Randy has stated, our very vital and amazing community has been growing faster than a speeding bullet and it is hard for it to keep up with itself.

Here is a good example, on my trip to NYC this weekend, I serendipitiously met two crew members (one pilot and one FA) who were FlyerTalkers, and one newbie, all of whom spotted our tags and introduced themselves. We did, BTW, give the newbie our FT tag.

We now meet FlyerTalkers on almost every trip. Seven years ago that just didn't happen. What worked perfectly in a community of several hundred, just doesn't hack it in a community of 60,000. We need to constantly be adjusting, changing and adapting to the new challenges that the changing face of our community presents.

Someone is beating a dead horse. Call the ASPCA. Or PETA.

It's mind boggling!

It's stated at the sticky at the top of the Only Randy Peterson forum (as has been pointed out on many occasions). http://flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=376034

I'm quite sure that Randy will change that if such a change is an outcome of the mod get-together.

As obscure2K posted, an absolutely wonderful time! Thanks for asking!

GREAT conversation, good food, wonderful organization, but most importantly, AMAZING people who are open, honest, caring, fun, and want the best for this community.

Hope that we have provided you with the feedback you wanted!

Perfect case in point, ClueByFour. I interpret that same statement to mean that Randy doesn't want individual moderator actions discussed publicly, and that makes a lot of sense, as that would be personal.

Alternatively, what is remotely personal about a FlyerTalker sincerely asking, "What are the reasons for which a Moderator can ban a FlyerTalk member?" What possible reason could there be for forbidding such a question?

I think these types of questions really do need to be addressed and clarified, as people are sometimes banned where there is no apparent TOS violation, while clear TOS violations are allowed to stand.

The clearer and more specific the rules, the better it is for all.

Please see here: http://www.flyertalk.com/help/rules.php , specifically the part "Actions That Will Compel FlyerTalk Intervention"

There are two things at play here. First, the moderators have to make a judgement call and do the best they can to be fair and take into account not only their own judgement but also often consult with other moderators and with Randy. Second, the moderators cannot personally catch every offense. Why not use the report post function? At other times, the moderators will not see it your way. If you disagree with moderator actions, you can follow the instructions from the sticky which ClueByFour quoted above.

I'm confident that you'll hear pretty much the same story from Randy too.

FewMiles, Moderator (Travel Tech)

It would appear from Randy's above post:

"Answer to Punki's question

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Punki, your question was a natural one to ask and let me go over a few things first:
- the idea of a ModDo came totally from the minds of our volunteers who continue to give back to the community. It looks like the first of another later this year so I think it's not meant to try and go over every single item, but rather form a base from which moderators can establish common tools and communication in helping members.
- This marks the first time that many will have been able to get together and discuss things with me. While we've had a few live chats, nothing beats being able to have an open dialog of FlyerTalk.
- In my mind, this is a training session to develop consistent tools and tutorials for FT mods now and into the future. I don't sense it's a ***** session.
- A great part of the mods work is helping new members acclimate themselves to FT. We'll likely chat about more "newbie" things we can do.
- The mods will tell you that I'm not likely to allow and devote time to talking about individual members.
- They are all coming paying their own way. This is one Do that isn't as much social as more giveback to the Community. All members should benefit from the standards that we hope to finally introduce.
- Your idea isn't a bad one, but the timing just is not right ... the first ModDo ever.
- I am more than comfortable that these individuals who devote more than an average members time on FT are aware of the issues which should be on the agenda.

Its rare in any online community to see this type of action from the moderators and we should all be very impressed of their commitment to FlyerTalk and beyond.

For me it will be a real eye opener. I barely have met any of the mods and it will certainly give them time to get to know me a little bit and how i think about FT, mods and our membership in general.

Sound OK?"

that Randy is open to polite, general discussions that request clarification of moderation policies. Why wouldn't he be?

Punki,

Let me see if I can address your question fairly simply.

The guidelines for when to ban users was not discussed at the ModDo. We simply did not have enough time to cover everything we had hoped to discuss, and quite frankly, these guidelines are amongst the lowest priority of the topics we needed to address because they have been very consistently applied.

The policy remains rather clear. Users may be suspended for violations of the TOS, whether the infraction is perceived as a violation by other users or not. That is left to the discretion of the moderator, and subject to review by Randy upon request by the member involved. These infractions may include personal attacks, or even something as simple as repeately dragging threads off topic. I am very confident that there will never be a detailed list of "here are all the things you could be suspended for doing". As FewMiles mentioned, it's also only possible for us to take action if an issue is brought to our attention or if we happen to see it by chance. We do not read every post in every forum (or even every post in the forums we moderate), and rely upon people using the Report Post icon to make us aware when there are posts or threads that require our attention.

I hope this addresses your concerns, Punki. If there are specific sections of the TOS that you are unclear about, I'm sure a PM or email to Randy would bring some clarification. I'd also be happy to discuss specific topics within the existing TOS as well, via PM or email.

Dave, a.k.a. dmfriedman
Moderator, Mileage Run and Coupon Connection

Thank you very much, dmfriedman, for your logical answer.

Out of curiosity, what were some of those "higher priority" issues that were discussed in an effort to enhance the level of service provided by the moderators to the general FlyerTalk public?

I will most certainly contact you privately regarding those incidents where the application of suspensions and bans appear, from the outside at least, to be very inconsistent.

Thanks again, Punki

Punki, I am sure you are very curious on what was discussed at Las Vegas, But the fact is the moderators have busy lives outside of FT and as yet the moderators that did not attend the "do" have no updates yet and you at this point have been told more than any other moderator that did not attend.

Please give it some time and I am sure Randy will let you know whats happened :)

Dino

On second thought, forget it.

^ ^ ^

I think most of "us" feel the Moderators' top priority ought to be correcting spelling errors in member's posts. I hope this was discussed at length over lapdances at the Vegas ModDo.

I mean...it's not like they have anything else to do with their time!

;)

What with the food-coma induced by the excellent food, it's surprising we actually managed to discuss anything beyond the meal. ;)

PremEx,

Come on over to Coupon Connection or Talkboard Forum and I will edit you to your hearts' content.... :)

William

Punki, I think you have your answer as to what came out of the Moderator Do.

Actually PoF, this was never even a topic at the Moderator Meeting. And the 20 moderators who were there would all acknowledge that.

Actually, your tirade and posting style is a perfect example of why these changes are taking place - so thank you very much. We have members, apparently like yourself that are so wound up about themselves and their point-of-view about things they know nothing of, that they create a new user name simply to flame other members - in this case me. That is hardly the mantra in which FlyerTalk operates best and was founded upon.

So while you think you are being such a cool dude, the reality is that you are exactly the poster boy for our actions, and more specifically, my actions. It's so refreshing to have an actual live example ...

Wow - didn't click on link to find out what PoF got suspended for but am assuming worthwhile. It takes a bit to get Randy riled up.

I'm happy the moderators & Randy had time to meet & discuss stuff. And actually if someone hadn't posted why are you all meeting/why can't we ask you questions/what did you all talk about, I probably wouldn't have known they met!

And - speaking for myself - am I ever going to ask what they discussed? No. I'm assuming they're getting beyond all the folk who beat them up in their 'volunteer' job & discussed ways of making our experiences better. I also figure it gave them time to 'gel' & that works for me too. They get kudos from me (as does Randy, as always). Cheers.