A simple solution: An open letter to RP
 

Dear Randy,

It is clear to me, and perhaps to most members, that it will never be possible to make everyone happy regarding having/not having an OMNI-like forum. And, I appreciate that you didn’t start this Board to become the playground monitor, so this entire OMNI distraction, and the spillover to other forums, must be a tad frustrating.

Why not let somebody sponsor a "lounge" offsite? There could be some kind of disclaimer such as: "Flyertalk is about points and miles, but for everything else you can retire into the lounge--accessed at www.flyinglounge.com, which is brought to you by members so and so. While your Flyertalk user name and password remain valid, Flyertalk has no official association or sponsorship of this site. Much like a back booth in a bar, you are free to discuss just about anything, just don’t carry on your disputes, if any, back here on Flyertalk."

This way, the inmates get to run their own private asylum without tainting the mission of Flyertalk. You would be taking part of your BB private, so to speak.

I know that someone(s) will point out the downside(s); one just doesn’t come to mind right now.

Sincerely, your cyber-pal, Jailer

I certainly don't think it would be a good idea to have the same passwords.

www.tireflock.com :cool:

Hmmmm. Does that mean you advocate removing all forums that don't discuss miles & points? Won't be much of FT left ;).

The point of Omni is a place to go to let off steam and have non miles & points conversations. What got out of hand was the constant political arguing. Many other online communities have an Omni type area with one major difference - certain topics are not allowed. For some reason our gracious host has refused to do so (as is his right).

Many of us have been with FT a long long time and have benefitted and greatly enjoyed the site that it has become. I think a few well placed rules, particularly in an Omni type area are long overdue.

As for your suggestion, I would hate to "leave" the site to gather and chat with my online friends. I'd rather adhere to more stringent rules.

Mary

I made a similar suggestion a while back, my idea was to have OMNI and OMNI Politics, where OMNI politics would be a hyperlink to another site with a code in it that would say referral=FT.

That way Randy would make some money also, but not sure if anyone ever got around to see it.

I think we all need a place where we can discuss mundane topics, such is the fact that I find Burger King's latest breakfast commercial "wake up with the King" rather disturbing :eek:

tireflock? Wow, how Twilight Zone is that. ;)

Sincerely,


William R. Sanders
Customer Service Coordinator
Starwood Preferred Services

[email protected]

Yes, the fact that the new Burger King commercial is part Steven King and part Pink Flamingos is disturbingly OMNI.

Good point Jon, passwords would have to be changed.

jailer

While I initially thought that your idea might be a good one for people who want Omni back, I'm not sure that I ultimately agree with you.

I was going to suggest another modification, which was not to allow the same user names to be used on both boards and then I realized that would defeat the purpose of what you were trying to establish.

The problem that I have seen is that if people get in heated debates or polarize themselves on a subject(s), it carries over into the primary purpose posts of FlyerTalk- travel/points related topics - where controversy should not even enter into the mix.

I don't have a horse in this race - so take the opinion for just what it is. :)

Sorry to be OT, but ...?!

That sounds reasonable. Surely there's someone here with the tech know-how to set up an off-site board. Allow any FT "personalities" to maintain their FT name, if desired. Could even ask for Paypal donations to get started. I'd pony up a few bucks a month for the entertainment.

As for the BK commercial, it was very disturbing, I agree!

We been using it since FT went down for the new software upgrade ;)

:D



All whiners need not apply. ;)

There are more than enough as it is :p

Is this an admission? ;)

I know of three independent boards populated almost entirely by Flyer Talkers:

The first is www.moremiles.org which was started years ago by some of the original FlyerTalkers and was, IIRC, a private board, to be used as a back-up when FT was down. (FT used to be down a lot more than it is now.) www.moremiles.org was thereafter made public. It is a pretty well behaved bunch, considering it contains the likes of Kokonutz. ;)

The second is www.tarom.net which bills itself as "Tarom, moderation and content free since 1987" which I personally think is hysterical. It hasn't had much traffic as of late.

The third is www.tireflock.com which, is a relative new board and, as you might guess from its name, is a parody of Flyer Talk. From what I have seen it is rather loose and rollicking.

It is curious to note that all three of these boards function quite comfortably without much need for moderation, thread closing and/or infighting (of course, they are very small boards, but they certainly do contain most of the characters usually involved in thread closings, infighting and moderation on FlyerTalk).

It may well be that each of these board just draws like-minded posters who are comfortable with the way things operate thereon, whereas FlyerTalk contains all of these folks, many of whom do not appear to be like-minded and apear to hold totally justaposed positions on how things should operate.

Expanding on Jailer's suggestion, and the suggestions following, maybe people who miss OMNI could check out all three boards, pick the one that they feel suits them best and post away. (Caveat: www.moremiles.org being a more conservative place, does require registration approval)

Of course, this would mean that FT would lose that traffic which may or may not be an issue, but that will happen anyway unless OMNI is reopend.

The other alternative, if maintaining FT traffic is important, would be to reopen OMNI with a new moderation team. I have already volunteered to help with that effort and have e-mailed Randy accordinginly, so we will see what he thinks.

emails to: [email protected]
 

With reference to the departure from this IBB of various fine men that roamed the boards that I care about around here, I have the following to say:

I’ve been off boards for a few days and.... wow, look at this friggen’ mess... :mad: :td: :rolleyes:

My mind and heart both tell me that I should also resign, not only because good men are being forced to leave, but because the underlying "principles" that are being used to justify all this nonsense are plain rubbish.

However, I think that resigning would be an easy cop-out, and would be unworthy of the things that I stand for.

FT has never been perfect, and it certainly never will be. Alas, there is only so much double standards, unclear policy, uneven enforcement, touchy-feely should be wishy-washyness instead of common sense "to the pointed-ness" that folks can bear. At some point, all this breaks people’s backs, and they choose to leave. How much of this nonsense do the decision makers around here think we have to stand…?

The owner of the Circus has perfected the art of SeaGull Management. His Circus, and its complete lineup (performers, assistants, and normal members of the viewing public) is now having to bear the consequences of these actions (or inaction?). While its taboo around here to dare to point the blame at “El Supremo”, all I have to add is that the truth is still the truth even though it doesn’t please the Emperor.

I can be contacted at the following email address: [email protected]

www.adultsactinglikespoiledbrats.com

Anything to prevent the inmates invading all the other forums now that the asylum has been closed.

Oops. too late. :mad: :mad:

I have no idea why the "cool" smiley was added to this post. :confused:

FewMiles - You run/own that board, (hosted via ScottC's Tarom.net it seems) and are also now a Flyertalk Moderator and are now standing for TalkBoard.

How dare you plug in Randy's Forum a board for the use of all Flyertalkers that you know you have deliberately have blocked access to a number of FlyerTalkers such as myself? What a cheek. :td:

A board on which you have allowed all kinds of threads to flourish openly attacking and lampooning a large number of active Flyertalkers by their FT handles?

You appear to want to run a teenage sorority playground where anything goes on the one hand, and come to FT with a Moderator hat and TalkBoard hat on the other hand, and sternly caution and indeed ban those that do HALF as much as you do yourself and allow yourself on your board - that you gleefully plug here.

If still running that board with your new FT Moderator/Talkboard aspirations is not the height of hypocrisy I do not know what is. :td: :td: :td: :td:

I suggest you need to seriously consider either closing that board or resigning from your FT Moderator post and TB application is my take. You simply cannot play cop in the morning and offender in the afternoons and hope no-one notices. IMHO.

Only yesterday you deliberately went out to destroy the peace and calm on www.moremiles.org and posted this provocative thread:

Can I treat this place like ORP?

Punki, I haven’t posted or looked at Moremiles in about two years, so I don’t know how it has evolved. But, I’m not suggesting a shadow, or competing, Flyertalk, with similar forums like Moremiles. However, www.tarom.net is sort of the model that I have in mind. When the Tarom forum closed the enthusiasts started a replacement to keep up the gag.

That would explain much.

Each of these bulletin boards has a different style and will appeal to different types of folks, and that is perfectly fine.

I would not worry about any of them competing with FT. Take a look at them. While they may be populated by frequent fliers, the posts thereon aren't about miles and points. They are about kicking loose and having fun, relaxing at the end of the day or blowing off steam during a hard day at work.

When you stop and think about it, that's what OMNI was about. :D

OMNI could be a very good place. It just needs a very diverse group of moderators of various ages and political stances to provide good balance and an understanding of all posters' positions.

For instance, since I am voting for Bush, if I were going to moderate, I would need PG as a moderator partner. ;)

Jailer - I believe you are quite wrong that www.Tarom.net ever "closed". There are recent posts there now and again such as this:

http://www.tarom.net/ubb/ultimatebb....029;p=1#000001

Your second part of the sentence might sum it up better.

The "gag" simply got stale.

All the in-jokes and the sorority behavior folks soon seemingly tired of. AFAIK you can go register and post there right now. But it might be a lonely wait for any replies - the one above took 3 weeks. ;)

Flyertalk is not perfect. Nothing in life is. But as ALL the boards above have shown, the traffic on them is indeed infinitesimal compared to FT, and that is indeed a credit to Randy and the crew for being all things to most people I guess. ^

Yes, we all know how you hold Randy in such HIGH REGARD

:rolleyes:

Morrissey - I forgot to add to my post that you so kindly quote - "expect the half dozen ex-Tarom "usual suspects" to get the frantic email alert and post the tired old usual stuff in the next few hours".

Thanks for reminding me to add that obvious truism. ^ :D ^

Good Lord, is it possible to have a logical discussion, with an intelligent exchange of ideas, without falling into games of one-upsmanship?

Men playing "mine is bigger than yours" becomes very tiresome very quickly.

Ah the high price of endurance we poor women have to pay for the fleeting benefits of testosterone that we enjoy. :o

Only for those who are not winning ;)

At the risk of committing an unnatural act here – i.e., posting on topic – let me suggest “a simple solution”.

I’ll start with an executive summary: Since it’s Randy’s house, let’s be sensitive guests here and do what he asks.

Some examples:

1. Let’s concentrate on points and miles, and clearly related topics. Now, that doesn’t seem too hard, does it? I mean, after all, it’s called “flyertalk” – which was intended, as I recall, to mean talk about (or related to) flying. It’s not called “baseball talk” or “same sex marriage talk” or “presidential election talk” or even – “moderator talk”.

(As a subset of this point, I fully concur with Jailer’s suggestion: If you want to spend [most of?] your time talking about this non-flyer stuff, find a board that specializes in such stuff, or even start one of your own.)

2. Since it is Randy’s house, let’s let him [and those he designates as his agents] decide who is welcome and who is not. Golly, what a thought. Can you imagine a group of nosey Parkers picketing and annoying a homeowner because he no longer invites someone else to his home? Randy is a private person, answerable to himself and his employers and shareholders, if any. He’s not a government and he’s not an elected or appointed representative who is “answerable” to the masses. If he decides not to invite someone into his living room anymore, that’s his call.

3. Related to the above is MYOB. Lawyers, who seldom use plain English if something else is available, call the concept “standing”. Whether you say “mind your own business” or “I suggest you don’t have standing” the meaning is the same. To the extent that Randy or his agents decide to exclude someone for what Randy considers disruptive behavior in his own place, so far as I can tell the only person who would have a legitimate right to complain is the person so excluded. I know, you really like “X”, but where it is written that you have a right to meet “X” at Randy’s place?

4. If you have a point to make, make it. When the point is made, and responded to, quit bellyaching and re-raising the point. If it’s your house, you can make the rules; if it’s Randy’s house, then he gets to make the rules and you have two options: Comply or depart. What part of that don’t people understand?

Now, I can understand mentioning to a friend that you think he may have been a bit harsh in his action, or that you think he doesn’t know the whole story, or that you thought the kids were just walking fast and not actually “running” through his house when they broke the vase (although personally I think those would be subjects for a private conversation, not a public debate), but when the (unfailingly polite) friend says, “thank you for your input, but my decision (or the decision of my agent) stands; that’s the way I want to do things around here,” you have run out of any reasonable right to continue arguing with him. At that point, you understand that (a) he doesn’t want to discuss it, or (b) he’s already considered that, or (c) he doesn’t want to put that issue up for a vote. Again, you have two legitimate options: Comply or depart. Staying but making a pest of yourself by continuing to whine about it, rearguing the point at every opportunity, and diverting nearly every conversation to your pet obsession is not one of the options.

:confused: I don’t know what the difficulty is. This seems simple politeness to me, yet it is apparent that a certain group of folks (not a “clique” because they don’t always agree with each other, although they -- the banned and their buddies -- clearly are passing e-mails back and forth behind the scene; maybe “the usual suspects”?) simply seem incapable of letting this go.

Or, maybe an even simpler way to put it is:

Rule 1. Folks here shall respect Randy’s wishes.

Rule 2: Even if you don’t like the result, Rule 1 applies.

Counsellor, I'm going to increase my miniscule ratio of ORP posts to overall FT posts and say:

^ ^

Excellent suggestions. :)

Counsellor, as always, a very well thought-out post.

In principle, I fully agree with everything you say, and in fact, I believe I have made similar posts in the past.

I cannot address your points as then, I could quickly be accused of doing exactly what you criticize.

If you wish to hear why one can see things slightly differently, even though one is agreeing in principle, please let me know if you would accept a PM on the topic.

Thanks.

If we are going to be honest with ourselves, questions about moderators, the closing of Omni, the resignations of some members, the banning of others, and the loss of reputaton/signatures/thread ratings are all closely related.

While I do feel that these are things which should be discussed, the unfortunate fact is that they have spread throughout the site.

There are currently threads dealing with them on ORP, TalkBoard, CommunityBuzz, and the Lufthansa Forum. (These are the ones I have seen -- there may well be more.)

I have the very uncomfortable feeling that such proliferation is not in the least healthy for FlyerTalk. :(

Fire away if you'd like. I can't promise to answer right away, but I will when I can.

I'd be willing to moderate.

Counsellor, thank you for a commonsense, reasoned post. Having come to the party late (I just started reading posts in this forum and never looked at OMNI since I came to this bulletin board to learn about miles and points), I don't understand all the politics behind the squabbling. But I do understand this is Randy's board; he can make whatever policies and decisions he wants to, and he doesn't have to justify them to the guests.

I'll take what seems to be the minority viewpoint here and agree with Gaucho100K.

Let me preface this by saying that I absolutely respect that Randy owns this board and sets the rules. Fair enough. But he also chooses to make this board a public place for discussion of topics (primarily travel and loyalty programs). Since this board is open to all (expect banned members) to register and post, at some point it begins to fall into a more public domain. Instead of Randy hosting us inside his "house" to discuss the issues, now it's more of a get together in a park. Still his park, sure, but I fee like some people posting in this thread are trying to stifle discussion with arguments like "whatever the lord of the board says, period." Well, no - not exactly. The ORP forum was set up for discussion of these very issues. If you want miles and points, I will refer you to MilesBuzz! and the various airline fora.

Lastly, and again while I thank Randy for hosting this site and providing us with the great service that FT is, I am getting sick of the deification that I see in many posts. It's almost a reverence, which strikes me as ridiculous. Be grateful to the host, but I don't see a need to speak as if he is the holy one.