MRSTARALLIANCE

gleff


This is just how it is, in the open, I have nothing to hide, Randy will recieve a email from me but I am a open person, I dont run behind people backs,Techgirl knows how I feel now and thats simply it.

Ive told TECHGIRL what I though, thats how it lays.

Eastbay1K

Its time for "Z", folks, time for "Z".

Jim Phillips

I'll go out on a limb here.

It's not as if most of the veteran posters who were timed out or warned were engaged in a battle-royal cage match where every man was out for himself dooking it out with the other.

Rather they were responding to the provocations of a particular poster whose reputation for getting locked down threads which he starts or others' threads he hijacks is unquestionable.

What is more questionable is this person's ability to contribute in a constructive or at least inoffensive manner helpful, relevant, and factual air-travel related information which facilitates the life and livelihood of the members of this community.

I for one over the years (as a lurker for many) have observed little "growth" of this particular poster, either in terms of his contributions, or his ability to control himself to avoid causing trouble wherever he goes.

It has now gotten to the point where he just shows up at the party, and not only do people no longer care to scatter, but are so sick and tired of him spitting in the punchbowl and dipping his finger in the birthday cake that they're crossing their arms and telling him to back off. "I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore."

Randy, I wish you will see this situation for what it is. The catalyst, least common denominator, whatever you want to call it, is not that all of a sudden all these acknowledged-veteran posters were all on the same flight and ate the same reubens made with ergot-spiked rye and decided to take it out on some poor wet-behind-the-ears kid. Actually, I'd bet Ozstamps' Sweet Spot certificates that many of these would be among the first in line to throw a youngster a bone... if somehow the youngster did not do something that would so irk them as to get on their 5hitlist.

Even during the timeout, this one has chosen to further demonstrate his recalcitrance by not only violating the TOS, but defying you, in signing on as Steal Sky Miles to continue with his inflammatory remarks.

Not picking out the rotten apple (or the few), but chucking out the whole crop, distracts us from the source of the problem which really should be more directly and forcefully addressed. I assume you want this resolution to occur through attrition rather than overt action, but I hope you see also that such a result achieved by more organic processes will incur the very undermining of the quality and credibility of this board which others cheer you on in the interest of upholding.

SanDiego1K

We need to be careful about acusing the banned of being the newly banned Save Sky Miles. I don't agree with the originally banned person's method of expressing opinions. However, I have met him, and have talked to him, and believe him to be a person who will honor Randy's timeout. I do not believe that he has posted under an alias.

techgirl

Wow... it certainly sounds like I crossed someone, somewhere down the line. I'm a bit surprised, however, that I'm hearing this kind of feedback. (And btw, I DO know your name... I just choose not to address folks by name on forums unless I know they would feel comfortable with me doing so.)

As far as my attitude on FT, Randy can take that up with me if he chooses to do so. I happen to like this community a great deal and for that reason, I not only volunteer as a moderator on two forums but I have also hosted several dinners and FT gatherings in my time here. It is no secret that I was not and still am not particularly thrilled that my boyfriend (who I would not have been lucky enough to meet were it not for FT) has left the FT community for good because of some things that happened here in the past few weeks. It certainly puts me in an unhappy position. I'm also not thrilled that other folks on FT that I like are telling me that they no longer want to post here because of the negative attitudes, the personal attacks, and the complaining that goes on here.

I learned a long time ago that I am not going to like every person that I meet or encounter... and not every person that I meet or encounter is going to like me. You, for whatever reason, have decided that you dislike me. And for that I'm sorry. I can't fix it nor do I waste my energy trying to get people to like me who don't even know me.

What I can tell you is this. I'm here to serve at Randy's pleasure. If he no longer wants me to be a moderator, I will resign. I've corresponded with him as such on more than one occasion.

I can tell you that it takes thick skin to be an active poster on FT these days.

dallasflyer

Way to go TG, your post here was very appropiate. You deserve the support of the community for the job that you and all moderators do. Thank you.

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dallasflyer, Let's put the fun back in FlyerTalk!

makin'miles

Let's all direct our eyes back up to what Gary said. It's wise, important, and appreciated.

ClueByFour

Curious: how much time have you devoted to FT lately?

You seem to advocate "just being honest." Perhaps, just perhaps, Techgirl also chooses to live by that mantra on FT, instead of hiding her feelings so that people who might not share them feel all warm and fuzzy inside about her being a moderator (at which, I might add, she does an excellent job)?

I would urge you to share your feeling with Randy, as it's ultimately his sandbox. I'm going to crawl way out on a limb and say that Randy probably thinks she's doing a pretty good job, or she presumably would not still be moderating a couple of forums.


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Don't feed the trolls.

anonplz

Sadly correct. But, hey, let's all try to bite our tongues and give things some time to improve, what with the improvements and all. Maybe people are just simply mad, and maybe needlessly, if the changes do what they are supposed to, i.e., fix FT. Surely, it will take a month or two - I'm not aware of what kind of timing there was put on the recent changes, but surely it will take time to have any effect.

aura

I'm only a newcomer, so feel free to disregard, but I agree with the above 100%. I lurk on a lot of the FT boards, and think the assessment is spot on.

I think FlyerTalkers' actions should be viewed against what they have actually *done* on the board. Those with a history of:
* interesting, informative posts;
* helping out newbies (or non-newbies) by answering their questions, even if it's the 100th time they've done it;
* spending unpaid time to moderate and doing it evenhandedly;
* generally actively being nice people who value being part of a community and contribute to the spirit of that community,
should be given the benefit of the doubt.

If they have been here a while, and have done so much good, yet gotten unusually worked up, and have all proceeded to do things some might think are or approach being objectionable but *all the while, taking the same side, consistently, against the same target(s)*, something must be up.

IMHO, many of those involved fit the above criteria to a T. JonNYC, while sometimes acerbic (and often humourously so), helps people a *lot*. Ditto ozstamps, with whom I may not always agree, but who has to be one of the most community-minded contributors, always willing to post relevant facts to a number of boards with the sole purpose of helping FTrs learn things. Ditto techgirl, even though, again, I may not always agree with everything she says. (Hey, that's democracy; and I'm probably the one who's wrong.)

Alexwuk, I have always found to be eminently courteous, with well-written and well-thought-out posts. Ditto Gaza and OttoGraham.

The thing I liked most when I first stumbled on FT was how many nice, cool, generous people there were on it, who were willing to help people out, and provide some entertainment, on their own dime. That was why I stayed, and what I hope some day to emulate, even though I don't deign to rate myself as highly as the posters above in terms of knowledge and experience.

Unfortunately, the thing I have found most annoying is a small number consistently negative, disruptive, attention-seeking people who seem to crave personal attention--even being detested--more than helping or entertaining others. Sometimes it settles down, sometimes not. It's merely annoying when it merely happens to bother me, or others.

When it becomes offensive and needs to be dealt with is when it degenerates into personal abuse, or borders on stalking, or involves posting of info that FT terms prohibit and that the poster doesn't want published, a la TechGirl above and JonNYC elsewhere, or when it threatens other people, and/or when it makes them leave. Such a thing happened to Maws, a valuable, decent and relatively new member, and is what I think prompted many of the above posters to commit their infractions.

Leaving aside the nasty little legal questions about the status of FT if it is the medium by which a tort or crime is committed (I would think and hope it got off scot free), it looks to my relatively new eyes that some long-time, good souls have been upset by some pretty base conduct directed at others, and reacted accordingly. If the choice is between not acting against such conduct at all, or having good people leave, I know what I think should be done.

JeremyZ

aura, I'd encourage you to search the suspended/warned members' names you mentioned on the CO board. Clearly there is some disruption initiated and *intended* by several of them. (To be fair, if you search mine, you'll also find some disruptive posts, but I think they're mitigated by far more constructive posts.)

Some of the most helpful posters on FT have recently acted very poorly, generally in forums they don't "positively" contribute to. Whether they were "baited" to do so frankly doesn't matter. I hope they can sit back, say "you know, Randy's right" and go back to being more focused on miles and points than their turf war that is probably more annoying to the rest of us than irritating to their "opponents."

We should be a community of frequent fliers united to get the most from FF programs. Instead, we've got these rabid Yankees/Red Sox type rivalries between airline patrons that's just silly. Members on *all* sides have declared their hopes that airline employees lose their jobs through Chapter 7 and have made dark, dark jokes about accidents and safety issues at "rival" airlines. Hell, we've even got moderators doing it.

aura, if you look at the totality of the current turf war, I think you'll recognize that there are varying levels of "guilt," and penalizing one person is no more reasonable than penalizing a group of "worst offenders." If you were a frequent participant on the CO board, you might have a different perspective than the one you wrote.

alexwuk

I, for one, am completely unaware of a "turf war" on the CO forum (or indeed anywhere else on flyertalk). I am here to figure out how I can get lots of miles, cheap rewards and cheap tickets; not to define my own piece of online 'Territory'.

As Gaza said:

My warning (and a few others, Gaza included) is due entirely to my posts in this thread.

I would ask that people read the thread in question; and then pass personal judgement.

Regards,
Alex


[This message has been edited by alexwuk (edited 09-26-2003).]

Marysunshine

Perhaps because of age, I see things in a very simple way here. I see an analogy between flyertalk and a home gathering. Randy is the host and the FT talkboard and moderators are his relatives. The rest of us are simply invited guests. I was brought up that when you are a guest in someone else's home, you behave appropriately. If someone says something you don't like, you have a choice: walk away or respectfully disagree. Now if the other person chooses to be disrespectful, you can still have a choice, walk away or leave the party. But you don't come down to that person's level and behave badly!!!!! It's offensive to the host and a poor reflection on your ability to control your own behavior. Now IMHO there are some very nice people here who for some reason don't see this board as a gathering. They believe they are more welcome than other guests. Well it's just not true. At any gathering there will some who form friendships and enjoy each other and others who are just different. But it behooves each of us to act like resepctful, dignified adults because it is a reflection of who we are!!! I would like to think that we each WANT to do the right thing and that takes thought, care and respect for ourselves as well as the other guests. Self control is a wonderful thing. If someone else behaves badly, it does not give you the right to do so as well. Ladies and Gentlemen, get your priorities in order. I am always stunned by the fact that successful people who run important businesses can suddenly have such poor judgement. Randy, I don't know how you deal with all the childish nonsense.

[This message has been edited by Marysunshine (edited 09-26-2003).]

anonplz

Oh, gosh, Marysunshine - you are SOOOOO right!

CameraGuy

I was hoping that this post would net get buried, but it appears that it has.

SD1K has made a VERY keen observation. It is quite obvious that the member in question has a LOT of detractors. I for one would not be surprised in the least if a detractor created this username and mimiced (sp?) the posting style in an attempt to cause a permanent banning.

I would hope that Randy and his tech guru's would undertake a thourough investigation before taking any action.