Could all this have been avoided?
 

With all due respect (sincerely):

I honestly believe that all these ill feelings could have been avoided. How? Decisive and proactive action long ago, when it was truly due.

Instead, FlyerTalk decided to play a more even hand (weak hand IMO). In Internet communities this is a dangerous game. Information flows at truly bizarre speeds...tables turn and spin. I consult on this topic daily...both to small business and billion dollar corporations. FlyerTalk, while truly interesting and no doubt unique, is not immune to these novelties and quirks of an open and 'anonymous' community.

Over the past year(s) many have called for moderators. The discussion has gone back and forth with nothing resolved. Could moderators have helped? I say yes, but who really knows?

Randy, who I have not had the privilege to meet yet, seems to be a most gracious, kind and no doubt forgiving gentlemen. BUT, FT and WF are businesses and businesses require hard decisions by their 'leader'. This has not happened in this community IMO.

Sure, who I am to criticize or comment? I am just Dorian...a member...respected by some...hated by others. This is my opinion.

Dorian

[email protected]

You are correct, Dorian. Many of us were concerned as early as last July at the profligacy, tone, and sociopathic tendencies exhibited. As early as August there were requests made to our host to either enforce the TOS or at least contact the offensive party personally and directly. No action was taken. Complete abdication of responsibility? Too many irons in the fire? Who knows...

At least we get peace and quiet for a week http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

"For a week." Ya, then what?

This evening some friends and I were walking home from Granville Island (here in YVR).

We saw a house on fire...possibly had just started. We banged on the door and called 911.

The fire department was there in 4 minutes...knocked in the door and started work on it. The owner arrived home just then.

He thanked us over and over for calling to save his house. He said he was so busy he must have forgotten something but was grateful others looked out for him.

Dorian

From July 1999: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum97/HTML/000045.html

Dorian- It's astounding how very fast a little fire spreads, eh? My neighbor had a kitchen fire a few years ago and I called 911 and waited - it seemed like forever 'til the fireman got there (though in reality it was not long) as the fire spread and spread so astondingly quickly! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/eek.gif

So now I know a real "hero!" http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

-----


Those who have been around awhile will recall that I too had asked about this in the past several times. Maybe even too many! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

"Once again if you'll permit me to ask, why not have some detailed rules explicitly stated up front? Why not have a verifiable, enforceable 'signed' agreement by all users to abide by these rules to retain participatory rights? Even within a broad self-regulating community of the type Randy & Co surely prefers, this would seemingly be most helpful and quite workable.

-Are multiple handles permitted?
-Is personal criticism permitted?
-Are friendly exchanges like 'Thanks' etc., between FT's to be discouraged?
-Is their a broadband problem to be considered so as to limit our posts?
-Is a certain degree of anonymity permitted or actively discouraged?
-Are repeated exchanges between 'undisclosed' family members/close friends permitted?
-What is the policy regarding tradgeties and posting them on FT? Is this discouraged?
-What language, specifically, is prohibited?
-Are complaints and ongoing customer service issues with providers appropriate?
-Is it acceptable for FT's to disclose personal information regarding other FT's specifically against their will?

Perhaps a brief statement addressing these concerns would be helpful, IMHO!

Thanks again to all the FT folks for their continued efforts to make the FT boards work so well for ALL of us! It's very much appreciated!"


Randy has stated that he is acting now to begin to deal with this matters and I am confident that he will continue! Hopefully we will ALL be patient and subsequently be rewarded! Thanks again everyone! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by doc (edited 03-02-2001).]

Doc,

That is a fantastic list... not sure if that was just created by you or in some of the archive posts.

Thanks for reposting!!!

William

Doc,

Questions without answers -> long overdue IMO.

Hero? No way. This is a common occurrence IMO. I think it is the third such situation in my life.

Dorian

Yet, a solution, partial or whole, albeit a tad late, is enroute! For this I'm grateful! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

I say no, it couldn't have been avoided at least by technical regulation. The only thing that could have been avoided is certain peoples adverse reaction to unwelcome posts. If everyone had just ignored them we'd have had a whole lot less useless posts and a lot more happy contributors.

Personally I give a lot of credit to flyertalkers who are smart enough to deal with the problems in an adult manner. And I think we are all intelligent enough to make up our own minds about these posts without anyone elses help.

Stimpy...agree and disagree with your thoughts.

What about moderators though?

What about more permanent action last fall when the '1st fiasco' started?

Dorian

p.s. I consider myself an adult http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

Moderators just don't work which is why (in the U.S.) we have freedom of speech. Who can say if a year from now a moderator denies one of my posts because he doesn't like me or some small aspect of my content? We can hope to install altruistic moderators, but we can't guarantee it.

Sorry for the comment about being adult. I'm sure you are adult in the world, but my impression is that the people wringing their hands over Oz are relative novices on the Internet. The cry for moderation is a common one on the Internet, but most people realize after they've gained enough experience that it's best to just ignore the offensive posts. Even though you desperately want to let the world know that you disagree with the poster, that path leads us to where we are today.

stimpy: My experience shows otherwise. Having participated on three moderated lists, a moderated board, and a variety of unmoderated lists and boards over the years, moderation's a much better compromise in my experience than anarchy. You are right, we would be dependent on the altruism of the moderators, but in my experience, moderators who don't behave fairly are in for massive criticism and eventually get ousted.

If we had bozo filters, that would be another story, but there's no way to totally eliminate the noise we don't want to hear.

If you had said you prefer no moderation, or in your experience it hasn't worked out, that would have been one thing, but to categorically say "Moderation just doesn't work," I strongly disagree.

One thing for sure - what we have here doesn't work.

dgolds...

your experience(s) echo mine completely. i have found moderated boards very well organized and pleasant to post on.

i think un-moderated boards are okay...for smaller operations...but FT has rec'd. a lot of publicity in the past year and has grown quite a bit...

Dorian

------------------
The Global Lounge Project - open source airline lounge listings
flyers'places - restaurant, bar & hotel tips
The Star Alliance RTW Price Chart - by Dorian
The Star Alliance Gold Comparison Chart - by Blondebomber

As a newbie who has found this community incredibly helpful, I would agree with the latter observation. And my question re the former "filters" observation is to pose a perhaps naive question: What if the board software allowed the ORIGINATOR of any topic/thread was allowed to delete any posting in that topic/thread? This might be a line between no moderation and moderation responsibility being assumed by each individual who starts a thread. What am I missing?

With appreciation for so many of you

Chuck

Moderators need not be censors, approving every post before it gets published.

On PlaneBusiness, moderators occasionally issue warnings or close threads, but editing or deleting posts is rare. And PlaneBusiness has people who genuinely hate each other!

[This message has been edited by JS (edited 03-03-2001).]