Codeshares- Help
 

Randy, I believe that codeshare problems are coming to a head. Up to recently, airlines actually practiced deceit as to which aircraft you travelled on! eg you would get a ticket with a well known US carrier to fly to Asia and suddenly find you are on Korean Air! You get attracted to a certain airline because of its adverts re "sleeper seats" or airport limo pickup or upgraded international economy class amenities and find ,at the airport you are in a codeshare partners seat with none of the expected amenities etc.
I just wonder if the "alliances" were partly developed to make codeshares more palatable to an ever more cynical flying public.
The concept of seamless travel seems to fall apart the further you fly from the US and western Europe. Examples of good alliance partners are UA, LH and AC.
However ,anybody travelling on "oneworld " lately may note a reluctance by BA to recognize elite travellers on QANTAS or AA tickets. Despite a US to Australia to Thailand AA codeshare ticket and elite status with both QF and AA, I felt that BA looked after its own pax before me.(Indeed I was bumped at SYD due to an aircraft configuration change . Over drinks awaiting the 8 hours for our new flight, 2 of the 3 other pax who I knew were also offloaded did not have a BA ticket)
With Star, I have had troubles with AN and Thai. Ansett , in particular, in my experience, pays little attention to Star Gold status.They don't even recognize the Star red baggage priority tags.I always have them replaced with AN's blue tags in SYD or MEL. I travelled earlier this year ORD- LAX -AKL-BNE-CAIRNS with a UA ticket but travelling on UA ( ORD to LAX only), NZ and AN aircraft.(BUT never again). Sure the fare was about 10% less than straight UA to SYD, but it wasn't worth the saving. My preselected seats in NZ's 747s had been "deleted" by checkin and ,of course, domestic seats can't be requested with AN. Despite having a Business Class fare, I really felt that I was lucky just to be in J class let alone to request anything extra.
When I fly UA( and I'm currently Premex) and despite its shortcomings, they do make you feel that a frequent flier is very important to them.
I won't even mention problems getting frequent flier points out of some codeshare flights. I'm sure you have had enough complaints especially regaerding the restrictive rules of AN and BA.
I hope that Congress starts looking at the relationship between the airline whose name is on the ticket and the airline actually flying the passenger. Surely, there must be more honesty and guaranteed minimum standards of service in relation to the metal we fly in.
Many of my coworkers have burnt in the "codeshare" game .
It is time for government intervention.

I'm myself fairly skeptic when someone calls for govt. intervention. Full disclosure - I support. Govt. intervention - well what intervention do you want? Do you want the US govt to guarantee that you get all the amenities in a foreign city where you are checking in?

There was a time when one would be very lucky getting any kind of miles on non-US airlines. I've myself travelled several en route to India where I received none. The picture is a bit brighter these days although not perfect. Not a fault of alliances though, but better than pre alliance days.

The fact is that with international travel, spanning multiple airlines/countries, one cannot expect that a uniform consistent treatment across the board. You mention UA and LH as examples of good alliance partners, but I am ticked off that I need about 80% more miles to fly on LH planes than the ones listed on UA's mileage chart (for some awards). But should the govt intervene in this? I would hope not and leave it up to the competitive forces among UA and its competitors.

There are two separate issues mixed up here. One is codeshares. The other is alliances.

In a codeshare you are a passenger (customer) of the airline whose flight number is on your ticket. You should be treated as such in every respect. If they chose to buy space on someone else's airplane instead of flying their own, that's their business decision. It should not affect the passengers.

The fact that the flight is operated by another airline should be disclosed up front (and in my experience always has been). Other that that, your elite status should be respected and you should not be able to tell the difference. When I've been on a codeshare the non-operating airline has had a flight attendant on board to make sure this happens. Even if this isn't universal policy, the gate and cabin crews should know that they're in effect pretending to be two or more airlines on that flight.

Alliances are something else. When, as an AA frequent flyer, I fly on a oneWorld member airline, I know I am not on AA. The benefits of AA elite status are defined in oneWorld materials. There is no reason they should match what I get on AA, other than my desire to get as much as I can and oneWorld's need to market its alliance effectively against the competition. If a partner airline does not give me the benefits oneWorld says I should get, I have a right to complain - but that has everything to do with complaining when I don't get what I'm promised, and nothing in particular to do with alliances.

From a business point of view, alliances make the most sense when the airlines do not fly many overlapping routes. Code-shares make sense only when airlines fly, or would like to fly, the same route. Many code-shares involve airlines that are not alliance partners. They may be unaligned (witness the Sabena flight I'm taking Thursday for Delta credit, which is operated by Virgin Express) or even members of competing alliances. The motivations behind the two are different. Neither is an attempt to make up deficiencies in the other. They serve different purposes: code-shares are primarily for operational reasons (an airline wants to fly a route but can't fill a plane) while alliances are primarily for marketing reasons (an airline wants to promote itself as having a global presence).

Note: edits were to correct trivial typos. Content is as originally posted.

[This message has been edited by Efrem (edited 08-31-1999).]

Efrem has outlined the important distinctions very well - I completely agree with him.

I just made an on-line reservation SEA/YYZ.

I was unable to get on-line seats on the return portion and called UAL to get assigned seats and upgrade. I was informed that the return portion was via Air Canada, that the best seats available were 24A & B and that there were no upgrade possibilities, by any method.

It is a direct flight, YYZ/SEA maybe 5 hours, so I was very disappointed. They did say, however, that I'll get my status miles and double miles.

Does anybody know about this stuff? Aren't they both Star Alliance? How does that work? Do I get PremEx Privileges? Early boarding, better seats, anything? Can I use my RCC card for the Air Canada lounge?

I am soooooo out of my element. http://talk.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif I usually only drive to Canada.

Punki,

As Star Gold you automatically get Maple Leaf lounge access and they should offer early boarding. That is it.

Also, they are telling you a fib when they told you that you get your PremEx 100% bonus. Nope. Just flight miles that count as status. Also they don't count for the 10,000 required to earn a book of upgrade certs.

All in all, I would change to AC from YYZ to ORD, UA ORD-SEA. Also, AC probably would not ask for your UA upgrade certs and they issue your UA boarding pass. Just a thought.

Punki,

I agree with auh2o. The Airbus 319 is actually one of the nicest coach experiences in the air, but since you can't upgrade, don't get double miles, don't get credit toward 10K/upgrades, 10K/confirmable upgrades, or million-mile status, I never fly Air Canada any more. Take UA all the way through ORD.

DEFINITELY visit the Maple leaf lounge in YYZ, whether you end up on AC or UA. It will spoil you forever.

And re upgrade certs...either the YYZ agents forget them completely or insist on 5 for the 2060-mile trip.

Well thanks for the input. I have been told so many different stories by United that it makes my head spin. In the end, I switched flights. (See the United thread for the story.)

I am still unclear on the Club situation. I am not in Star Alliance, just a PremEx and RCC member. Can I use the Air Canada Club?

From the United Airline web site:

Star Alliance lounges
When traveling internationally on any Star Alliance member,
simply present your same-day international ticket and your
Premier Executive card, and you may relax in the following
lounges:

United's Red Carpet Clubrooms
Air Canada's Maple Leaf Lounges
Air New Zealand's Koru Club Lounges
Ansett Australia's Golden Wing Club Lounges
Lufthansa's Frequent Traveller or Business Lounges
SAS' Business Class Lounges
THAI's Royal Orchid Lounges
VARIG's Business Class Lounges

Look for the "Star Gold" sign outside eligible lounges.

If you are PREMEX, you are automatically Star Alliance Gold. That will get you into the Air Canada Maple Leaf lounges.

As an RCC member you also get access to Air Canada's Maple Leaf lounges.

see
http://www.star-alliance.com/htmen/1_1.htm

Megamiles posted on a UA thread (without search I cannot find it) and on AC? about upgrades in your situation.

Megamiles?

thank you for your comments.
Rather than government involvement in enforcing our expectations on the codeshare partners, I am more concerned that we don't always get the right information about them and we need to enforce the concept of "truth in advertising".

Well thank you all very much. Come to think of it, although I actually go to Canada fairly often, this really is my first FLIGHT into Canada in many years. What an education you have offered -- happily BEFORE the flight. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

I think I will keep trying new experiences and getting smarter and smarter in my old age (with all of your help, of course.) http://talk.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

You are welcome Punki. The airline web sites themselves have tons of useful information, so don't hesitate in browsing those as well. Sometimes they are better and usually are more accurate than airline reps themselves.