An apology to Priceline board management
Mar 6, 2002, 8:44 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: From and of Boston.
Posts: 4,973
An apology to Priceline board management
[Ed. note: I posted the following note on Mar 6. I have since come to learn that the
apology contained in this note is misplaced. For more info, please see the posts in this topic, including my follow-up post of Mar 23.
--Wideman, 3/23/02]
In the past, I have raised questions about or criticized the managers of the Priceline/Bidding for Travel board (especially, its moderator, Sheryl) for being less than candid about income that they might receive through Priceline. However, according to information that Sheryl has posted, I appear to have been in error, in which case I apologize and withdraw my questions.
Specifically, I wondered if Sheryl received any income from her board. If she did receive income, her appeals for participants' financial contributions (which I have made) would be an outrage, and legitimate questions could be raised about her bidding advice –- would that advice benefit the financial position of Sheryl, or that of the potential Priceline bidder?
However, Sheryl has stated unequivocally that she volunteers her time to the Priceline board. If she volunteers her time, then she receives no income from the board, and my previous criticisms and questions were therefore without merit or basis.
I apologize to Sheryl and any others who may have taken umbrage at my comments.
Note: The ground rules of Sheryl's board preclude posting this message in that forum. Because my criticisms/questions were made in FlyerTalk, I'm posting this note here, for the benefit of both Sheryl and FlyerTalkers.
Edited to add forescript on 3/23
[This message has been edited by wideman (edited 03-23-2002).]
apology contained in this note is misplaced. For more info, please see the posts in this topic, including my follow-up post of Mar 23.
--Wideman, 3/23/02]
In the past, I have raised questions about or criticized the managers of the Priceline/Bidding for Travel board (especially, its moderator, Sheryl) for being less than candid about income that they might receive through Priceline. However, according to information that Sheryl has posted, I appear to have been in error, in which case I apologize and withdraw my questions.
Specifically, I wondered if Sheryl received any income from her board. If she did receive income, her appeals for participants' financial contributions (which I have made) would be an outrage, and legitimate questions could be raised about her bidding advice –- would that advice benefit the financial position of Sheryl, or that of the potential Priceline bidder?
However, Sheryl has stated unequivocally that she volunteers her time to the Priceline board. If she volunteers her time, then she receives no income from the board, and my previous criticisms and questions were therefore without merit or basis.
I apologize to Sheryl and any others who may have taken umbrage at my comments.
Note: The ground rules of Sheryl's board preclude posting this message in that forum. Because my criticisms/questions were made in FlyerTalk, I'm posting this note here, for the benefit of both Sheryl and FlyerTalkers.
Edited to add forescript on 3/23
[This message has been edited by wideman (edited 03-23-2002).]
Mar 6, 2002, 8:36 pm
#2
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: May 1999
Posts: 46,817
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by wideman:
In the past, I have raised questions about or criticized the managers of the Priceline/Bidding for Travel board (especially, its moderator, Sheryl) for being less than candid about income that they might receive through Priceline. However, according to information that Sheryl has posted, I appear to have been in error, in which case I apologize and withdraw my questions.
Specifically, I wondered if Sheryl received any income from her board. If she did receive income, her appeals for participants' financial contributions (which I have made) would be an outrage, and legitimate questions could be raised about her bidding advice –- would that advice benefit the financial position of Sheryl, or that of the potential Priceline bidder?
However, Sheryl has stated unequivocally that she volunteers her time to the Priceline board. If she volunteers her time, then she receives no income from the board, and my previous criticisms and questions were therefore without merit or basis.
I apologize to Sheryl and any others who may have taken umbrage at my comments.
Note: The ground rules of Sheryl's board preclude posting this message in that forum. Because my criticisms/questions were made in FlyerTalk, I'm posting this note here, for the benefit of both Sheryl and FlyerTalkers.
[This message has been edited by wideman (edited 03-06-2002).]</font>
In the past, I have raised questions about or criticized the managers of the Priceline/Bidding for Travel board (especially, its moderator, Sheryl) for being less than candid about income that they might receive through Priceline. However, according to information that Sheryl has posted, I appear to have been in error, in which case I apologize and withdraw my questions.
Specifically, I wondered if Sheryl received any income from her board. If she did receive income, her appeals for participants' financial contributions (which I have made) would be an outrage, and legitimate questions could be raised about her bidding advice –- would that advice benefit the financial position of Sheryl, or that of the potential Priceline bidder?
However, Sheryl has stated unequivocally that she volunteers her time to the Priceline board. If she volunteers her time, then she receives no income from the board, and my previous criticisms and questions were therefore without merit or basis.
I apologize to Sheryl and any others who may have taken umbrage at my comments.
Note: The ground rules of Sheryl's board preclude posting this message in that forum. Because my criticisms/questions were made in FlyerTalk, I'm posting this note here, for the benefit of both Sheryl and FlyerTalkers.
[This message has been edited by wideman (edited 03-06-2002).]</font>
IF
"...with the exception of membership in affiliate marketing programs managed by a third party..."
Are you sure? IF
Classy move, in any case! Thanks!
---
http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...ML/000054.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...ML/000064.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...ML/000071.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...ML/000009.html
[This message has been edited by doc (edited 03-06-2002).]
Mar 9, 2002, 8:00 pm
#3
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 244
Lets take Sheryl at her word, but then I ask
Who gets the income from the "affiliate marketing programs "? On the Priceline site it is pretty clear that they pay for "qualified" bids. So someone or something is getting that income. I would have assumed that the board is getting it (and have no issues with it) as it is good business. However full disclosure is deserved.
In fact I think all the travel sites offer this "affiliate marketing program" and might suggest to Randy that he post those here so he can make some money as well. Here of course we should post them all PCLN, TVLY, EXPE, and any others, then when we frequent these sites we can insure that we choose who gets paid for our business and know that it goes where we want it.
Who gets the income from the "affiliate marketing programs "? On the Priceline site it is pretty clear that they pay for "qualified" bids. So someone or something is getting that income. I would have assumed that the board is getting it (and have no issues with it) as it is good business. However full disclosure is deserved.
In fact I think all the travel sites offer this "affiliate marketing program" and might suggest to Randy that he post those here so he can make some money as well. Here of course we should post them all PCLN, TVLY, EXPE, and any others, then when we frequent these sites we can insure that we choose who gets paid for our business and know that it goes where we want it.
Mar 10, 2002, 7:41 pm
#4
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Chicago
Programs: UA 1K, AA Gold
Posts: 3,640
At risk of getting flamed by Sheryl, below is an email message I received:
I am writing a selected number of our long time members to let you know that BiddingForTravel.com is now my business and the limited commissions generated through our links and banners is my income. So if its not too much trouble, it would be greatly appreciated if you use our links or banners for your Priceline bidding.
Happy Bidding!
Sheryl
I am writing a selected number of our long time members to let you know that BiddingForTravel.com is now my business and the limited commissions generated through our links and banners is my income. So if its not too much trouble, it would be greatly appreciated if you use our links or banners for your Priceline bidding.
Happy Bidding!
Sheryl
Mar 10, 2002, 8:06 pm
#5
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Pittsburgh
Programs: Whoever Has the Best Bonus
Posts: 5,183
If you don't think it's a business, then you guys are KIDDING yourselves. Whether it's a true dot-com and losing money, that's a whole another story and not any of my business
No apologies from me, it is unexcusable to edit someone else's posts and pretend it's THEIR words.
No apologies from me, it is unexcusable to edit someone else's posts and pretend it's THEIR words.
Mar 11, 2002, 10:28 pm
#6
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Manhattan NV
Programs: Hilton LTD, Hyatt Glob, Marriott LTTE, AA LTP, Avis PC, National EE, Seabourn DE
Posts: 3,030
I'll use biddingfortravel for my PL hotel rooms when they offer an incentive. Otherwise, I book with PL directly. Now if one only knew when the incentives would be in place.
Mar 12, 2002, 5:16 am
#7
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: From and of Boston.
Posts: 4,973
OK, now I'm really confused. I certainly don't object to Sheryl running the PL board as a business, if that's what she's doing. The part that would be extremely troubling, though, is the deception.
If it is a business, Sheryl should not ask her customers for contributions, as she has done in the past and continues to do, while continuing to insist that this is a volunteer effort.
If Sheryl's income is dependent on the nature of her customers' bids, she ought to explain that. For example, suppose Sheryl receives income when a customer bids $50 for a hotel room but not if that customer bids $40. If Sheryl suggests that a customer bids $50 for a room, that could well be an excellent suggestion for the customer, or it could be a suggestion that supports Sheryl's business, or both.
Sheryl, there is nothing wrong with starting and operating a business -- indeed, it's an American tradition. And there's certainly nothing wrong with being paid for doing work: I spend my time during the day resolving software issues and wouldn't think of volunteering my time for it.
The PL would be a far more valuable resource to the traveling community if Sheryl and her co-administrators would lift the cloud of uncertainty from their efforts.
If your work on the PL board is a volunteer effort, please confirm that it is so. If it's a business, please stop pretending (and explicitly stating) that it isn't.
If it is a business, Sheryl should not ask her customers for contributions, as she has done in the past and continues to do, while continuing to insist that this is a volunteer effort. If Sheryl's income is dependent on the nature of her customers' bids, she ought to explain that. For example, suppose Sheryl receives income when a customer bids $50 for a hotel room but not if that customer bids $40. If Sheryl suggests that a customer bids $50 for a room, that could well be an excellent suggestion for the customer, or it could be a suggestion that supports Sheryl's business, or both. Sheryl, there is nothing wrong with starting and operating a business -- indeed, it's an American tradition. And there's certainly nothing wrong with being paid for doing work: I spend my time during the day resolving software issues and wouldn't think of volunteering my time for it.
The PL would be a far more valuable resource to the traveling community if Sheryl and her co-administrators would lift the cloud of uncertainty from their efforts.
If your work on the PL board is a volunteer effort, please confirm that it is so. If it's a business, please stop pretending (and explicitly stating) that it isn't.
Mar 13, 2002, 8:31 am
#8
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Kingston, Ont, the limestone city
Posts: 975
A commision paid = a salesperson hired.
You should not treat your stock broker as a financial advisor... same thing as you should not treat Sheryl as a travel advisor.
They are both salespeople.
Except your stock broker does not ask you to donate/contribute to maintain his money-making website.
[This message has been edited by MoreMiles (edited 03-13-2002).]
You should not treat your stock broker as a financial advisor... same thing as you should not treat Sheryl as a travel advisor.
They are both salespeople.
Except your stock broker does not ask you to donate/contribute to maintain his money-making website.
[This message has been edited by MoreMiles (edited 03-13-2002).]
Mar 19, 2002, 2:28 pm
#9
Original Member and FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Kansas City, MO, USA
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Posts: 16,579
Unless I've totally misinterpreted postings and emails I've seen, Sheryl is definitely making money off of the Biddingfortravel.com (BFT) website. I agree though that this is not very clear in general. This is somewhat disappointing because I can remember back in the day Sheryl posting to rec.travel.air stating she received no compensation from Priceline and that is why she could be trusted. I'm sure at the time she was not lying about that, but I think it's unfortunate she gave up that position of not receiving compensation.
The problem with it is there are opportunities to save money that are now not allowed to be discussed on the BFT website, in particular Ebates. In the past Ebates offered a 1% rebate on Priceline bids, but by bidding through Ebates to get this rebate, BFT loses out on their commission. With only a 1% rebate I could buy that it is of marginal value though, and the savings achieved through using the BFT site far outweight 1%. However, Ebates is now offering 4% rebates on hotels and there is no longer bonus money available on the BFT website for hotels. I think the BFT website is doing a great service to its "customers" by not informing them of this, even if it does cost them commissions. While BFT is still an excellent tool, I think everyone needs to be aware that they are not unbiased.
The problem with it is there are opportunities to save money that are now not allowed to be discussed on the BFT website, in particular Ebates. In the past Ebates offered a 1% rebate on Priceline bids, but by bidding through Ebates to get this rebate, BFT loses out on their commission. With only a 1% rebate I could buy that it is of marginal value though, and the savings achieved through using the BFT site far outweight 1%. However, Ebates is now offering 4% rebates on hotels and there is no longer bonus money available on the BFT website for hotels. I think the BFT website is doing a great service to its "customers" by not informing them of this, even if it does cost them commissions. While BFT is still an excellent tool, I think everyone needs to be aware that they are not unbiased.
Mar 22, 2002, 11:22 am
#10
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 4,843
Bidding for travel is an excellent resource. It is a website that anyone may freely and voluntarily register with. Even if people have problems with the way Sheryl runs her board, it is her board and she may do what she pleases. If anyone does not accept this, they are free to not use her board. I know that Sheryl does put a lot of time into it, and for her to get something back is not a problem. Her board has saved me 100s of $$ in the short time that I have known of it, and I plan to support it by placing all priceline bids through BFT.
Mar 22, 2002, 9:35 pm
#11
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Kingston, Ont, the limestone city
Posts: 975
Sheryl is an average woman with little computer knowledge. Why would someone set up a moneymaking site on a forum that charges so much for high traffic? She stated on her page that it costs $2000 per year to host that site on EZBOARD. She then askes for donation for she can keep that site up to make her profits.
With that much money, she can pay a web hosting service and set up her own forum software, for much less.
Do you see flyertalk asking for contribution? Flyertalk uses the similar forum software that is found on BFT... yet they are able to do this without begging for $$$ right on the first line of the homepage.
With that much money, she can pay a web hosting service and set up her own forum software, for much less.
Do you see flyertalk asking for contribution? Flyertalk uses the similar forum software that is found on BFT... yet they are able to do this without begging for $$$ right on the first line of the homepage.
Mar 22, 2002, 9:38 pm
#12
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Kingston, Ont, the limestone city
Posts: 975
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by johnep1:
I know that Sheryl does put a lot of time into it, and for her to get something back is not a problem. Her board has saved me 100s of $$ in the short time that I have known of it, and I plan to support it by placing all priceline bids through BFT.</font>
I know that Sheryl does put a lot of time into it, and for her to get something back is not a problem. Her board has saved me 100s of $$ in the short time that I have known of it, and I plan to support it by placing all priceline bids through BFT.</font>
Her board did nothing, she did nothing. It's the people who post there that gave you the tips on savings.
Flyertalk can easily do the same. They now have FlyerTalk Miles, FlyerTalk Travel, etc... all they need is a new group called, FlyerTalk Bidding.
Randy... are you listening?
Mar 23, 2002, 6:33 am
#13
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: From and of Boston.
Posts: 4,973
I am now convinced, both by information in this topic and some offline correspondence, that Sheryl does, indeed, receive income from her board, and that Sheryl’s saying that she “volunteers” her time is a mistruth. My initial apology was, obviously, misplaced and should not have been offered.
The dilemma, as Beckles states it so well, is that the BFT board contains some very useful information. Certainly one could use the information from the BFT board and then place bids either directly through Priceline or through Priceline U.K.. When you use either of those links, no one receives a kickback.
I agree with MoreMiles and others that it’d be terrific if there were a useful alternative to Sheryl’s board. I don’t pretend to know the economics of it all, but I’d certainly support a FT-sponsored board that provides information and links similar to BFT.
The dilemma, as Beckles states it so well, is that the BFT board contains some very useful information. Certainly one could use the information from the BFT board and then place bids either directly through Priceline or through Priceline U.K.. When you use either of those links, no one receives a kickback.
I agree with MoreMiles and others that it’d be terrific if there were a useful alternative to Sheryl’s board. I don’t pretend to know the economics of it all, but I’d certainly support a FT-sponsored board that provides information and links similar to BFT.
Mar 23, 2002, 7:17 am
#14
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Paris, France
Programs: IHG, CC, HH, AF, AA, UA
Posts: 830
I'm not trying to break the consensus here, but I feel that anyone who provides useful information on the Internet for free (and Sheryl does), deserves to be rewarded in some way. She does put a lot of effort into this board.
If we can reward her by going through her links - at no cost to ourselves (Priceline is the one paying, right ?) - then it's all for the better. The fact that she does not openly disclose that she receives compensation for this is not an issue as it is quite obvious.
The e-bates thing is a little more troubling to me, as she is intentionally hiding information that would be useful to members but well, it is her board after all.
You may not like her way of running the board or her attitude, but then you are allowed to just forget about the board, or - more cynically - use it and choose not to reward her.
But please, stop ranting.
If we can reward her by going through her links - at no cost to ourselves (Priceline is the one paying, right ?) - then it's all for the better. The fact that she does not openly disclose that she receives compensation for this is not an issue as it is quite obvious.
The e-bates thing is a little more troubling to me, as she is intentionally hiding information that would be useful to members but well, it is her board after all.
You may not like her way of running the board or her attitude, but then you are allowed to just forget about the board, or - more cynically - use it and choose not to reward her.
But please, stop ranting.
Mar 23, 2002, 9:33 am
#15
Original Member and FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Kansas City, MO, USA
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Posts: 16,579
Great, see what you guys did. I just tried to clear up some misconceptions here, and now I'm banned from BFT, obviously for what I said here (without even the courtesy of an email from the BFT management). Considering I can still read the board but not post my winning bids and such, I'm not sure how this could possibly improve BFT ... It's not like I wasn't willing to abide by their rules on their board, but apparently you have to abide by their rules everywhere to earn the privilege of membership.