I think there is merit in limiting the alliance to a few higher standard partners. It looks as if *A is begining to break up with the announcement of different levels of membership, while ST is really just AF/DL at this stage.

I think *A has become a little too big for its britches. It will soon have European airlines based in Austria, England, Poland, Germany, Denmark/Norway/Sweden, Spain, Portugal, Switzerland, Slovenia, Croatia, Finland, Greece, and Belgium plus Turkey and Egypt. Not to mention three US based airlines and six Asian airlines. When will it end? I foresee it collapsing under its own weight due to too much intra-alliance competion.

I think the issue of what passengers would ideally want and what is good for the airlines is different. I hear everyones comments about not being able to get from ICN to PVG etc - but the existence of alliances will only continue if it is in their interest. And frankly right now it is too early to tell - the years ahead will determine whether *A has taken the right track in taking on every airline it can find or whether OW has taken the right track in a smaller network that potentially offer more benefit to its members - it will be interesting to see what happens.

[QUOTE=wijibintheair;11894384]...a smaller network that potentially offer more benefit to its members ...QUOTE]

I wonder what those additional benefits might be you get on OW compared to *A/ST. Maybe the nicer lounges.

I prefer something that is between the two. A remote-but-popular destination should be served by two OW carriers from different geographical locations.

MLE is only served by BA out of LGW. Sure the Europeans may have a ball, but pretty lackluster out of US West Coast and East Asia. PPT is another - LA serves out of it's SCL-IPC-PPT route, but the only other carrier is TN-QF codeshare to AKL and SYD.

And sure it's always nice to hear a new member such as S7 joining OW, but it's flight options from East Asia to the Russian Far East is lackluster at best. A 685 mi direct flight from NRT-VVO isn't available, the only way one can do this flight is to fly a painful 5476 mi NRT-ICN-OVB-VVO journey. The same with Khabarovsk and Yuzhno-Sakhalinsk.

As for ICN-NRT-PEK, an addition of a mainland Chinese carrier would definitely take care of that issue.

Well, for me and most others residing and/or working in Asia, the ICN - PVG/PEK routes are about a hundred times more important than any US domestic connection. And a lot more lucrative for the airlines as well.

So let's strenghten the alliance by cutting non-profitable US domestic flights and replacing AA with a major Chinese carrier if it has to be. ;) Joking of course, but just wanted to remind where airlines actually still make money.

OW tends to be a Euro-centric alliance. 4 carriers in Europe, but only 2 to cover the whole East Asia region.

OW's presence in Asia is severely outshadowed by *A and ST from the lack of direct flights that links the three capitals of E. Asia + Shanghai:

O Tokyo to/from Seoul covered by NRT-ICN and HND-GMP (JL)
O Tokyo to/from Beijing covered by NRT-PEK (JL)
O Tokyo to/from Shanghai covered by NRT-PVG and HND-SHA (JL)
X Beijing to/from Shanghai - N/A no domestic intra-Chinese OW carrier
X Beijing to/from Seoul - N/A no Chinese OW carrier and the 2 Korean carriers already taken by *A and ST
X Seoul to/from Shanghai - N/A no Chinese OW carrier and the 2 Korean carriers already taken by *A and ST


They key market that OW is lacking is:

1. The strong growth of SHA which will eventually replace HKG as the East Asian financial center
2. The ambitions plans of ICN whose goals are to overtake NRT as the main hub of East Asia (lower landing costs, more runways, and less stringent curfews).
3. S. Korean conglomerate business travelers using mainly *A and ST flights to visit their company factories in mainland China.


And, I would definitely use OW more if AA starts flying to ICN direct from the mainland US instead of changing planes at NRT. With the US military presence in S. Korea and potential to grab government fares, a huge Korean-American population living in various cities across the states, I can't imagine why AA hasn't looked much to fly there.

Well, that depends. Given China is forcing FM and MU to merge, it's impossible for both FM-MU and CA to be in *A. One of them has to join OW anyway.

Says who? Both ST and *A already has two US carriers (technically the former will merge into one giant though), and *A is actively courting 9W into their alliance even though they already have Air India.

[QUOTE=kebosabi;11900394]Says who? Both ST and *A already has two US carriers (technically the former will merge into one giant though), and *A is actively courting 9W into their alliance even though they already have Air India.[/QUOTE

about FM/MU merger it's not difficult to see politic play at the maximum possible level, and both * and ST have heavily played connection, especially the former through the German government. I am expecting the new merged airline will fold in no time to *A, in conformance to Cologne desires to hamper ST expansion.
for 9W/*A negotiations it doesn't hurt that 9W CEO is a former LH stooge, and as usual such types always tend to congregate around the old mothership.

:confused:

Are you for real?

*A is far more Euro centric and if anything, I would say Europe is one of OW's biggest weak spots as there is no strong central Euro carrier within the alliance (MA is definitely not strong!). Both ST and *A have better Euro coverage. [Had BA being more generous to LX, and LX joined OW this would have obviously changed but time has now moved on].

In respect to Asia, OW is arguably better than ST although *A is obviously king in this region.

[QUOTE=DownUnderFlyer;11895220]The "members" of these alliances are airlines.

If they see alliances as a source of profitable pax, they will incentivize it. But look at OW: BA & QF are well known for the high rewards for premium cabin and the low rewards for cheap tix. Since they are the leading members of OW, it's not surprising that it follows their philosophy.

Still think that about the only possible quality candidate in Central Europe would be Air Berlin. Maybe sponsored by S7 and in Russian ownership?

Or then co-operate with DB and other railway operators and offer passengers codeshares on trains.

Given current green politics, this could be a fabulous idea.

Being a regular China traveler with a lot of inter-china domestic traveling, with the merger of FM and MU, and if MU moves to *A, I am pretty much forced to switch to *A, after having been a faithful CX traveler for many years.