DONE4 advice please
 

Hello all,

My preferred itinerary for an upcoming DONE4 is as follows:

MEL-AKL-SCL-GRU-MAD-BRU-LHR-CDG-HKG-NRT-MEL-BNE-ROK, CNS-MEL

Yes, starting in MEL, followed by return to MEL for a stopover of several months, and then the remaining domestic legs, also finishing in MEL.

As I understand it this would break a rule relating to no stopover in city of origin. However, when I run it through Milage Monkey, as suggested in other threads, it comes back as valid. :confused:

Is this a known limitation of the tool, or am I missing something?

If it is as I suspect, I suppose the best thing to do would be to start with SYD-AKL rather than from MEL. Any other suggestions welcome...

Thanks in advance,

tb

No. This rule was removed several years ago, but some in QF try to tell you different. QF in Collins St seem to know the rules (or at least some of them).

Buying thru AA will be cheaper (less surcharges) as is buying in AKL, instead of Aust. Have a look a AFF and oneworld.com

If you are going to SCL a flight out Easter Island (IPC) is worth it. Interesting place to vist for 2 or 3 days

The AKL/SYD-SCL segment is very hard to get a D class seat on QF or LA. Try both and all combinations. Guys at work fly this route frequently. Often they can not buy a business class seat so they go in Y or via LAX. If you find D availibilty grab it quick and book everything esle around it. Several threads on this topic

Many people avoid LHR. Take the chunnel train BRU-LON-Paris

Thanks Mwenzi
 

Great to hear that it is okay to stopover at point of origin, which will make things much easier ~ thanks for that.

Most of the LH flights are already booked through QF, but I will see what AA can do ~ key issue at this stage may be seat availability as I depart early OCT. (Would you have any idea what magnitude of savings booking via AA may yield?)

BTW, I am one who avoids LHR if at all possible (even before more recent problems). In fact I may not even need to go to LHR, in which case I will take the Thalys as I usually do between BRU and PAR.

Thanks again for your assistance.

tb

What is LH do do with ONE??
AA savings may be a few $100, but if its not your money, well......

Sorry: Long-haul
 

Sorry, long haul

Thanks,

tb

Hmmm...
 

As you say, some in QF will tell me different.

Just had a lengthy discussion with a QF Premium agent, who could not be convinced that the previous rule has changed. She consulted various "fares people" and others, but kept coming back with the same answer: That if I return to point of origin, that is the end of my itinerary, so no subsequent domestic sectors... :confused:

Can anyone refer me to documented evidence regarding the current status of this rule?

Thanks again,

tb

Unfortunately there is more than one status on this, depending on the source you consult. According to oneworld.com, for example, when you return to your point of origin the trip is over ("...you are free to roam locally at will within a continent as long as you don't go back to your point of origin..."), yet the official rules published by the same site, linked a little further down the page, make no mention of this. On the other hand, when you check the starfile you get "NO RESTRICTION FOR STOPOVER AT POINT OF ORIGIN.". So, a yes, a maybe, and a no, the three 'documented'.

Another thread
Do a FT advanced google search on "NO RESTRICTION FOR STOPOVER AT POINT OF ORIGIN"

I just had a DONE4 ticketed by QF which includes 3 flights after my return to Sydney (SYD-ADL-PER-SYD). The TA needed some education regarding the rules but QF was fine.

Still no joy with QF ~ AA looking better...
 

Well, I had another long chat with QF rez last night and the rather helpful agent went off to check with various QF and OW hotlines and advisors. Called back later saying that point of origin stopover was definitely not permitted. Asked him for the rule that prohibited it and he could not come up with one. When pressed further he came up with "trip must start and end at the same port". Not sure if that is even a requirement, but as I pointed out to him, that wording does not actually prohibit a stopover there nor does it imply that the itinerary must end if you pass through that port. In fact my plan is to start and end the itinerary in MEL, just with a stopover there en route...

He said he would make further enquiries and that he or someone else would call me back again last night or today with an update. Still waiting...

On the advice of Mwenenzi, I had earlier PMd Dave Noble (local FT AA guru) to ask about advice for booking a DONE4 itinerary via AA. Dave sent a prompt and helpful reply, after which I called the AA ATW desk in DFW. The helpful agent there then efficiently constructed an itinerary, which almost duplicates the flights I have reserved via QF. Importantly, he was able to reserve seats for me AKL-SCL-GRU and GRU-MAD, which were the sectors I was most concerned with.

He had absolutely no problem with my stopover in MEL, nor adding three Oz domestic sectors six months later. That itinerary is now off with the AA Dublin "tax" office, and they should apparently have it priced up within 24 hrs. ^

According to Dave, I will also save considerable $ by avoiding QFs high fuel fines, so I will be interested to see what figure they come up with.

The AA agent also told me that this itinerary currently looks like it can be eticketed, which QF was certainly not planning to do.

An additional bonus is that apparently I do not have to pay for this fare until just before departure in early OCT, wheras QF were asking for payment in the next week or so.

Unfortunately this does not solve the original QF-related problem, but it does at least provide a useful work-around...

Thanks in particular to Mwenenzi and Dave Noble for their prompt and helpful advice.

tb

Link to CX rules after the ground segment rule change (by christep if I remember correctly)
It would seem QF interpretation of the rules is not the same as other Oneworld airlines

Update: *ONE* stopover @ POO (point of origin...)
 

Deleted to avoid repitition

For your purposes, it's not.

74N . 4. TRAVEL MUST BEGIN AND END THE THE SAME POINT ¥
75N . EXCEPT ORIGIN-DESTINATION SURFACE PERMITTED AS
76N . FOLLOWS:
77N . * WITHIN COUNTRY OF ORIGIN
78N . * BETWEEN U.S.A-CANADA
79N . * WITHIN AFRICA
80N . * WITHIN THE MIDDLE EAST
81N . * BETWEEN HKG-CHINA
82N . * BETWEEN BANGLADESH-BKK/SIN
83N . * WITHIN SOUTH AMERICA
84N . * BETWEEN MALAYSIA-SIN

I really wonder why QF caused so many issues with you whereas I was able to ticket everything without a problem from QF. Even payment was not an issue at all and I only ticketed it recently even so the reservations were done months ago.

No complaint re payment date
 

Perhaps it was calling the Premium desk... :rolleyes:

Actually, I must say that I made the original bookings for the core flights back in April, and at that stage they gave me a payment date of 14 September for an early October departure, so that is not at all bad, and I was not complaining about it.

I was simply noting that booking via AA had an added advantage re payment date. In fact the agent said that for a DONE4 itinerary from this region, they did not require payment until the day before departure, although he did caution that some of the other carriers participating in the itinerary may have different expectations.

tb

Latest update from QF: "I have some good news for you Mr TB"
 

Good news: The situation with QF is now resolved, as follows:

The QF Premium agent I had been dealing with did eventually call back a couple of times yesterday afternoon and evening. On the first occasion it was simply to reiterate that stopover at point of origin was not allowed. He had done some further research, blah blah blah...

I then thanked him for his persistence, and related my story with respect to booking the same itinerary on AA, with absolutely no problem for stopover at POO. We were about to conclude our business when he suggested that if he could access my AA booking he may be able to understand how it was possible, etc. With some trepidation, I gave him my PNR, but did not expect to hear back from him.

A few hours later, he called back, saying he had some good news. He and a supervisor had eventually spoken to QF "Industry Sales", who after some discussion confirmed that POO stopovers are indeed allowed on a OWE itinerary, so I could go ahead and make my additional sector bookings. :D

I asked him for a point of reference for this but he could not provide one. He explained the earlier problems by saying that the Industry Sales people work general office hours and had been closed at the times I had made my previous enquiries, so could not be consulted... :rolleyes:

Anyhow, this is certainly good news for me, and hopefully some kind of reference point for the future.

Now my decision is whether to go ahead with the AA bookings (lower fuel fines, etc), or return to the QF booking, which would yield better QF FF points (on QF sectors).

Once again, thanks to all for your helpful advice and inputs. ^

Best,

tb

It should not make any difference who tickets the flight. QF points are all by your ff number & the flight number. Keep the $$ instead of giving it to QF.

Glad so see there was a positive result ^ It will help others

Yes, except...
 

You are correct, except:

The slight downside of the AA itinerary was that they could only confirm me on LA 800 on the trans-pacific sector (they had no availability for a QF 321 code-share seat on the same flight), and they also had no availability on the QF direct service NRT-MEL, so had to book me on CX via HKG (and WL me for the QF direct service). While the CX flight would add some SCs and additional points over the (baseline points for the) QF direct service, it also adds about 7 hrs to the journey (with a quick connect time in HKG but transit via ADL from HKG-MEL).

Also, if I buy via QF I will gain an additional 10 or 11k in QF FF bonus points for purchasing direct from them on my ANZ QF FF credit card.

So, all up a difference of about 20k FF points, as I figure it, but I am happy to be corrected.

tb

I had the same 'question' as Mwenenzi. The credit card bit I think I understand. On the flights themselves, this is presumably nothing to do with AA (or QF) and whether 'they' have availability - simply the fact that the D inventory was available when you made the reservation with QF but is not now available - it wouldn't make any difference whether you called AA, QF or CX. The question is, if you 'release' (i.e., cancel) your reservation made with QF, will the D inventory on those flights be released (so you could book it via AA)? That's always uncertain and presumably doesn't matter anyway if you're going with the QF reservation for the extra credit card points.

Definitely good news though that QF now 'understands' the stopover rules.

Ef ?
 

Looks like you need help from someone with www.expertflyer.com. Maybe www.seatcounter.com will show (I have not used)

Agreed x 2
 

Agreed, although I guess it may be stretching to claim that 'QF' now understands. I suppose the key take-away here is that if you are having trouble with QF rez refer the CSA to "Industry Sales" (and hope that they come up with the same response). I certainly believe that demonstrating that AA had no problem with my itinerary (and indicating that I was happy to pass my $10k or so to them...) inspired a bit more self-examination.

This is a common deal for ANZ bank issued "QF FF" Visa and DC cards here in Oz: I think you get 1 bonus FF point for every 1$ spent directly with QF, over and above other FF points earnt on monthly spend.

Agree also regarding the availability of D inventory, but I assume that there is absolutely no way to guarantee that any released inventory would come my way ~ too many uncontrolled variables, I suspect...

Thanks,

tb

AFAIK, absolutely correct. Cancelling a D inventory reservation certainly doesn't mean the available inventory automatically goes from Dx to Dx+1 (in this case, D0 to D1) .... would probably go from J0 to J1 but even that isn't certain, if they'd previously oversold the cabin.