Which oneworld programm to pick?
 

Hi oneworld forum

I am usually flying LH (just made it SEN) but will now fly Iberia
Since I don't have any oneworld card yet I am open to suggestions which programm to choose. I read somewhere AA would be the best and I just enrolled but I thought, I'd check with the experts :)

The only other affiliation I have is with Alaska Airlines but, alas, they partner with BA but not IB...

Suggestions welcome! Thanks!

What fare class do you usually book? What routes?

Normally I would point you in the direction of AA, however if you generally on the cheapest tickets QF might be the best place to put your miles as at least they give 100% even on N class fares.

What is your preference? Miles or status?

C and Status
 

Thanks for the quick reply!

I will probably mostly fly Business Class
My preference would be status

AA then?

It really depends what classes you fly. American Airlines gives very few miles on most economy Iberia fares, as do most other oneworld airlines. Cathay Pacific only gives miles in Y and R in Iberia economy, which means if your ticket is in any lower class than the two highest economy fares, you get no miles. On AA, it's full miles for Y/R, and 30% for all other economy fares, same with LAN. Finnair gives 50% on most Iberia fares.

There is only one oneworld program that really works for Iberia flyers who mostly fly in economy - Qantas. They give 100% miles and full discount status credits on almost all Iberia tickets. Their redemption levels for rewards are not the best (they're rather high, in fact), but the fact that you earn many more miles than you would on any other program makes up for this.

If you only fly business or first, the equation changes. I would then recommend either AA or Cathay, depending on whether you ever fly BA transatlantic or not. If you don't, then go for AA, if you do, then stick with Cathay.

I find the LAN, Finnair and Iberia program to not really be worth it in terms of what you get out of them, though this is only from looking at their earning/spending rules rather than personal experience.

What is your flying pattern like? Mostly eco or business, mostly short-haul or long-haul? What are your most common destinations? What would you like to use your miles for? If we know this, we can make more specific suggestions for you.

Cathay?
 

Interesting input

My guess is that I will use it only for business (class) trips. I will likely at some point be flying business with BA across the pond.

So, Cathay then?

Edit: I just remebered that I might be flying Emirates as well. Does that factor into the equation?
Edit 2: Are they seriously charging 50 bucks to join the Cathay Program?

See my answers in red.

Edit: Another thing about AA - the program may actually be better for you if BA transatlantic flights will be a very rare occurrence. You can earn elite status faster through Gold and/or Platinum challenges (search the AA forum for details) and it will be free to join the program. If you have a lot of BA transatlantics though, then you lose out on too many miles (especially status miles). But for only an occasional BA trip, you could go with AA as your primary program and credit BA transatlantic sectors to Alaska to at least earn award miles for them.

Soif I were to join Asiamiles, and throughout the year I realize that I might rack up enough miles to get status it is too late, right? I assume, they don't let you transfger and convert Asia Miles to status miles once you join Marco Polo?

Good idea about UA for my Emirates miles, I thought about that...why not build status with them as well

I think that the biggest trigger point for joining a particular program is the importance of upgrading to the individual. As there are no pan-OW upgrades yet, its critical that you join the airline's program if you want to upgrade. Otherwise, AA would generally get the nod.

Just keep in mind that Emirates flights will not count for status on UA - only for award miles. Status would have to come from other *A flights, but if you have a year where you don't have to maintain your SEN status, then you can put those flights on your UA account without risk of losing status with LH. But if you have SEN (and thus *A Gold) status anyway, you might not even need status on UA. You just need to earn enough redeemable miles on UA to redeem an award ticket.

As of this January, only flights on AA (or AA codeshares, I think, but not partners) count for the challenges.

Michael

I am confused. I thougt I could credit my BA miles to AA? They don't count torwards status?

In general, you can receive both award and status miles on AA for BA flights, but you cannot earn AA miles for BA flights from London to the US. Conversely, you cannot earn BA miles on AA flights from the US to Europe.

Antitrust agencies on both sides of the pond decided that if AA/BA could codeshare and give miles on their collective flights on these routes, this would equate to unfair competition since they together hold something like 70% of the London-US market.

Again, this applies only to transatlantic flights, a BA flight to Dubai or wherever earns regular status and award miles on AA. Same for flights to Canada, Mexico, the Caribbean - anyplace that is not in the US.

The one exception to the rule are BA flights to the US from Manchester - these earn normal miles as well, since the antitrust issue is only about London.


What I meant with the bit about earning award miles but not status miles was that you could credit the BA flights where you cannot earn AA miles to Alaska Airlines instead. They would not count for status on Alaska, but they would give you redeemable miles on Alaska.

So like I said:

if you don't expect to fly BA transatlantic very often: use AA and Alaska

if you expect to fly BA transatlantic a lot - go with Cathay, and pay the 50 bucks. (BTW - this is a one-time fee joining fee as long as you have four flights per year.)

Have a look here and in particular at:

. By the way, the reverse is true as well for AA flights and BA miles...

Michael

Note that EK do count for status miles on CO's OnePass programme so if elite status is needed in a more useful programme, CO might be also worth considering.

That only applies to a very limited number of flights:

From the CO website:

"* OnePass Elite qualification miles and points and Elite mileage bonuses may only be earned on Continental Airlines codeshare flights operated by Emirates connecting in London Gatwick (LGW) to/from Dubai."

You can earn redeemable miles on all Emirates flights, but it won't help you much in getting status with CO.

why not BA then
 

Thanks for all the valuable info. Why don't I choose BA then, if AA won't do on BA and I am likely to fly Iberia and BA business class?
Is it so much worse than Cathay so that Cathay is worth the extra 50$ ?

Thanks

Because BA's redemption rates aren't that great. You'll get more bang for your buck (or flight for your mile) with Cathay.

If you live in the UK and can take advantage of all the other ways to earn miles doing everyday things that are available there (points from Tesco supermarkets [sort of like Payback in Germany], BA AmEx, etc.), the balance tilts to BA because you get some many more miles with relatively little effort. Plus there are redemption offers like 2 for 1 award tickets which are only available for UK residents which make the program more attractive if you live in the UK.

Elsewhere, Cathay offers the better deal because from the same amount of flying you get more rewards.

Oh, and don't get me started on how few miles BA gives for economy flights - on any carrier. 25% of miles flown, and no status miles for economy flights. Not good. :td:

If you fly mainly Transatlantic Business over 66,666 miles a year then go for AA, its worth it for the 8 free upgrades to FIRST. Also it might help if you posted what your main travel routes are and class of course.

Fo info on AAdvantage and the AAmazing Platinum challenge go to the American Airlines forum.

But this would require flying AA. And wouldn't work at all when flying BA.

I would go for QF.

If you fly business-class you will get status very soon.
(You get 40 TPs on flights under 600 miles and 60 TPs on flights over 600 miles). (not only the flat 40TPs of BA in Business).

All fare-classes get Tier-points (even the deepest discounted classes).

All fare-classes on IB earn 100% miles.

No worry about transatlantic flights on AA/BA that do not count.

QF has a lifetime status (long way, but possible).

If you need lounge-access on QF/BA/AA you can buy a Qantas-Club membership.

Earing rates are as bad as with BA, but you get more miles.

Be aware: QF-Silver doesnt get you into the lounges, you need gold for that, but that gives you 50% Bonus on QF/BA/AA.

If you fly Business-Class you get lounge-access anyway

Thanks for you input. Sounds good, However, in the end I opted for BA, simply b/c it's the airline I will mostly fly with (in OW) and according to other posts there are no alliance-wide upgrade awards in OW. We'll see if I make status here.
Thanks y'all though!

True, but there are some occasions where you get more on BA than on QF, e.g. flights to the East Coast of the USA. Also there are other tricks such as BAH-DOH sectors and using a BA codeshare on a QF J domestic flight - both which give full long haul TPs.

Unfortunately this is not always true. Yes, IB get 100%, but be aware that there are quite a few fare classes on several OW carriers which credit nothing including even a few noteables on AA. CX also requires L and above to get anything.

True, however I suspect with Macquarie Air shortly taking over QF, I can't see this perk remaining despite the huge amount of flying to get it. At least with AA's programme, all miles count to lifetime status whereas with QF only flying gets you there.

You can buy a QF Club membership and NOT credit to QF should lounge access be a requirement, however the OP should be aware that when flying IB, he/she won't be entitled to lounge access.

Not true. The bonus paid on QF miles is a percentage of the awarded miles, for example a min payment of 125 miles on a deep discount, yet the flight miles were 100 miles, you will get 25 miles on a silver membership as a bonus, whereas BA would give you the higher amount. Small difference but for short hauls it adds up.

25% for Silver (OW Ruby), 50% for Gold (OW Sapphire),and 100% for Platinum (OW Emerald). Bonus only paid on QF, BA and AA flights. AA's programme however pays the bonus on ALL OneWorld flights.

For the AA programme, one should note that even on deep discount fares, 500 EQPs are awarded on fares that credit (even in the slighest) which whilst won't get you many redeemable miles definitely helps for Elite qualification.

Again I am going to point the OP to AA's programme as at least in OW, it's the best one out there. CX is not too bad in some respects either, but QF is definitely one of the worst. Personally I am only with QF for lifetime status as it is will within reach. In fact I am only a few flights away from it, but I am seriously considering changing to AA afterwards especially now that Macquarie are taking over QF and they are known for cuts. There is a reason afterall why Macquarie are one of the most profitable investment banks in the world!

It's worse than that. The status bonus is applied first before applying any minimum mileage earn. This means, for example, almost all QF domestic flights in NZ earn me the minimum amount despite having WP status.

You are indeed correct! :o

Are you sure?

So we can get AA miles from Manchester to USA? Where does it say this??

How about a through ticket from manchester -> london -> USA ;)

I can't remember where it says it, but BA's MAN-JFK-MAN flights also have AA codeshare flight numbers (AA6679 and AA6680). This is the only flight where codesharing was permitted under Bermuda II, and it's the only British Airways transatlantic flight where you can earn AA miles - if you've booked the AA codeshare flight rather than the BA flight.

CX doesn't have any tier bonus and its miles given on J and F are relatively low. CX Diamond offers the best among all OW FFPs. If you seldom fly to N.America,not much point to join AAdvantage. Bascially if you are frequent J traveller,I would suggest you to join either BA or AA,depends on your needs.

In what way is CX Diamond better than AA EXP? (I don't mean flying patterns or country of residence issues, just plain FFP benefits).

the reason why I've never considered to join AA or QF is the fact that you will need 4 flights each year on their own metals.. So that's why I ended up with CX :) With my flying pattern I could never be able to fulfill these needs...

-You can use miles to upgrade many airlines' tickets but AA cannot??
-Guaranteed Y(up to V) on CX and KA & J seat(J and C booking class)

BUT higher rate to retain Diamond and no tier bonus.

To be simply,you need to spend more on CX,but you will beneift more.

You earn AA miles on AA codeshares to the UK even if they are on BA metal. You also earn BA miles on BA codeshares to the UK on AA metal. AA/BA are prohibited from codesharing at LHR and LGW for flight to/from US. BA does codeshare on AA flights at MAN (ORD-MAN, BOS-MAN and MIA-MAN have all had BA codeshares), and AA codeshares on the BA flight MAN-JFK. BA has chosen not to codeshare on other AA services to the UK (e.g. ORD-GLA was not a codeshare, when it operated), and BA does not want to operate any trans-Atlantic service except from London (the MAN-JFK flight is a political anomaly and BA keeps trying to kill it).

As for CX being a good plan, yes and no. It is a much more complicated plan than AAdvantage with generally worse earn/burn ratio. But it has lots of special features (some good, some bad). Diamond is much harder to earn than EXP (really equivalent to double EXP), thus much rarer and with more CX benefits (but not more Oneworld benefits). Those living in HKG and able to make Diamond are much better off with CX Diamond than with any other OW status. And CX often sweetens the pot with unofficial Diamond benefts, some of which are quite valuable (but not guaranteed).

One example of the complexity of CX plan: awards US-Europe vary in cost (based on mileage) while on AA it is the same cost (anywhere in continental US to anywhere in continental Europe). So the comparison of CX to AA varies by route for award redemption (and there is a big percentage difference). The same is true for the rest of the plan. Which is best depends on how you earn and burn, it has to be an individual analysis if you want to optimize the miles.

The only OW FFP that seems to enforce the minimum 4 flights rule is BA. AA and QF have the same rule but do not enforce it. However, that may change in future - notice how the AA challenge is now required to be on AA coded flights.

Yep, again, which programme to pick?
 

I'm contemplating the possibility to start flying more OW, mainly because AY network is getting quite good for my travel pattern (let alone the SK service 'enhancements'...), and also because I spotted a really nice BA I-fare that would fit my upcoming HEL-NRT trip :)

The question is whether FinnairPlus is the best programme for me or should I rather switch to something else? From reading this forum, I gather many people suggest AA or CX. However, I parctically never fly AA and don't anticipate to do so much in future either, and upgrades are definitely my top-priority for burning the miles eventually earned.

I may actually fly CX a bit, but only 25% class of service bonus is a bit of a drawback, since I sometimes do fly long-houl business (like the planned Japan trip).

My main objective would be reaching and maintaining status; I tend to tarvel long houl busines or premium economy 2-4 times / year, and quite a few intra-european trips on cheapo tickets. However, my travel pattern may change quite a lot in long term.

My own research suggest that the progarmmes to consider are AY, BA and possibly MA's Duna Club, but the post OW accession rules haven't been released as far as I know. It seems that reaching status is more or less equally hard in all OW programmes (unlike *A that has lot of variation in tresholds). For example the HEL-LHR-NRT return trip on BA I-fare would give me:

320 BA tier points (80% of required 400 for Silver) OR
45,868 AY points (76% of required 60,000 for Silver) OR
17,812 CX miles (60% of required 30,000 for MPC Silver)

If MA is going to count OW flights against status, I reckon this would generate 28,050 Duna Club miles (70% of required 40,000 for Silver).

So, it seems that after all, AY is not that bad for me, especially becuase it looks unlikely I could ever make OW Sapphire in any programme and:

• HEL is my current home base, and AY Silver would give me lounge access for AY flights departing there
• BA doesn't give any tier points for cheap fares
• AY would be the most likely place to use for upgrades
  

But have I missed something? Any other suggestions? Or perhaps I should just stick to *A where I can renew the Gold status fairly easily...

Yes, you have. BA Silver is a oneworld Sapphire status. BA only has Silver (Sapphire) and Gold (Emerald). They don't have a "Ruby" status level.

I would recommend against AY - even though they give you more miles for premium classes, their redemption levels *SUCK*. You need to earn a ridiculous amount of miles to get free tickets, and even with the relatively high class of service bonii they give, you'll get free flights much faster on other programs.

BA will get you to status quickly because you're based outside of the UK, but as you already mentioned, the BA miles you earn cheapo tickets are hardly worth mentioning. Also, their redemption levels aren't great, but better than AY.

Have you looked at Qantas? For your upcoming trip to Japan, you'll earn 440 status credits, which will get you to QF Silver (Ruby). You need 700 SCs to reach Gold (Sapphire), and 600 to requalify in subsequent years. Platinum (Emerald) is yours for only 1400/1200. The good part with QF is that they also give reduced SCs and full miles on cheap tickets (including all revenue fare classes on IB and AY, cheap tickets on BA earn reduced SCs and 25% miles). Based on your travel pattern, you should easily make Gold (assuming two long-haul roundtrips in Business or Premium Eco), or even Platinum (assuming four longhaul roundtrips).

Details on status credits are here:

http://www.qantas.com.au/fflyer/dyn/program/privileges

Details on mileage earnings are here:

http://www.qantas.com.au/fflyer/dyn/...m/terms#jump23

Before someone else says it - the redemption levels on Qantas also aren't great, but, like BA, still better than AY.

In your case, I would probably go with either BA or QF.

Elementary, me... Thanks a lot for all info. ^ I guess I'll go for BA then, as QF has the 4 flights on their own metal requirement, which I doubt I can fulfill. I may have to start flying BA more, even if it requires connections at LHR :(

There is only one oneworld program that actually observes that rule, and that is BA. I know someone who has top-tier QF status (Platinum) and has never seen the inside of a Qantas aircraft!

So don't let that rule stop you if you think QF may be a better fit.

There's some discussion over on the JAL forum about the effects of oneworld for JAL Mileage Bank (JMB). JMB has its own pros and cons, too.

One pro is that you can get oneworld Sapphire elite status as a JAL Global Club member who accumulates just 20,000 EQPs (called FLY ON points). The first year takes some work to get there, but subsequent year renewals could be pretty easy. There is a 4 JAL flight requirement, though.

And just to toss another program into this mix, does Alaska's program make any sense for the OP?

Not if he values status. He says he will fly mostly European airlines, none of which count for status on Alaska. Plus he's based in Finland, so there's bound to be some Finnair flights in the mix. Finnair is not an Alaska partner.

JAL seems like another interesting option, indeed, but I'm not sure about the JL flight requirement. It might work or then not. Generally, my problem is that I don't quite know whether my travel pattern will remain as it is for very long, as it's quite possible that I move to the other side of the world in a couple of years (and possibly to a middle-of-nowhere place where the choice of airlines can be very limited). BA is relatively safe as they do fly to all continents; and I'd probably visit home every now and then, so AY flights would be an option always, but I now realise that the programme sucks - I wonder how it manages to attract members at all.

I had a closer look at Malev, and the attractive part of Duna Club is that after reaching Gold, you get 50% tier bonus that counts towards status, so retaining the status (80,000 points required) should be rather easy. The earnings also seem pretty generous compared to most other OW programmes. However, the redemption levels look horrendous! If I read the table right, inter-continental return in business would cost some 240,000 points or more :eek: And of course with their fleet of 2 B767s the worthwile upgrade awards are next to none.

Here are some links to their programme pages, if anyone has any further insight on this option:

Membership tiers
Points Accrual