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-   -   Is this DCIR22 routing legal? (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/oneworld/642607-dcir22-routing-legal.html)

wallaby Jan 2, 2007 9:36 pm
Is this DCIR22 routing legal?
 
Is ORD-NRT-SYD-BNE-LAX-BOS (AA153/QF22/QF528/QF175/AA264) a legal Circle Pacific routing? Or does it fall foul of "IN NO EVENT MAY TRAVEL CONTINUE BEYOND THE ORIGINAL POINT OF ORIGIN".

number_6 Jan 2, 2007 9:50 pm
I've never flown on a circle fare, but my understanding of the routing restriction is that you cannot continue after reaching your city of origin. So your routing is 100% legal as it does not continue beyond ORD. The rules prohibit LAX-ORD-BOS but allows LAX-BOS.

wallaby Jan 2, 2007 9:55 pm
Excellent, thanks.

serfty Jan 2, 2007 9:55 pm
EF is currently returning that rule as "--- TRAVEL VIA THE POINT OF ORIGIN NOT PERMITTED. ---".

That rule is in relation to your original port; that is, if you begin on ORD your travel finishes as soon as you go back to ORD.

Kiwi Flyer Jan 2, 2007 9:58 pm
AFAIK surface segments are included within the mileage calculation. Does the distance between origin (ORD) and destination (BOS) get added? If so then over 22,000 miles.

serfty Jan 2, 2007 10:58 pm
The rules are vague on this:
Code:
F. TRAVEL MAY ORIGINATE AT ANY POINT FOR WHICH FARES ARE PUBLISHED AND
  MUST TERMINATE AT THE SAME POINT OR AN INTERMEDIATE POINT IN THE
  COUNTRY OF ORIGIN. THE POINT OF ORIGIN MAY BE RETRANSITTED ONCE
  PROVIDING NO STOPOVER IS TAKEN.

  EXCEPTION 1.ORIGIN-DESTINATION SURFACE SEGMENT PERMITTED BETWEEN LAX
              AND YVR. ---

G. TRAVEL IS NOT PERMITTED VIA COUNTRIES WEST OF THAILAND. ---

H. SURFACE TRAVEL AND USE OF THE CARRIERS BETWEEN INTERMEDIATE POINTS
  ALONG THE CIRCLE WHICH ARE NOT OPERATED BY QF/AA/AY/BA/CX/LA/LP IS
  PERMITTED AT PASSENGERS EXPENSE AND MUST BE TICKETED SEPARATELY.
  MILEAGE MUST BE INCLUDED IN THE MPM CALCULATION.
Kiwi Flyer would be correct in this case if a surface sector considered to exit between MOS and ORD.

On an other topic, the rules really are contradictory, consider this from above:
THE POINT OF ORIGIN MAY BE RETRANSITTED ONCE PROVIDING NO STOPOVER IS TAKEN.
This contradicts that posted in my 4th Post; yet both appear within the text for the DCIR22 rules.

wallaby Jan 3, 2007 8:46 am
Originally Posted by serfty (Post 6941053)
MUST TERMINATE AT THE SAME POINT OR AN INTERMEDIATE POINT IN THE COUNTRY OF ORIGIN.
Kiwi Flyer would be correct in this case if a surface sector considered to exit between MOS and ORD.
If BOS is regarded as the termination point then one could argue that there would be no surface sector BOS-ORD.

jerry a. laska Jan 3, 2007 11:12 am
98N . 4. TRAVEL MAY ORIGINATE AT ANY POINT FOR WHICH A
99N . FARE IS PUBLISHED AND MUST TERMINATE AT THE SAME
100N . POINT OR ANY POINT IN THE COUNTRY OF ORIGIN. IN
101N . NO EVENT MAY TRAVEL CONTINUE BEYOND THE ORIGINAL
102N . POINT OF ORIGIN.
It appears to be a valid routing to me.

wallaby Jan 3, 2007 3:53 pm
So looking at reverse of the original routing, it seems to me there is no way using Oneworld of doing SYD or BNE to the USA via NRT without an overnight at NRT. Am I correct?

serfty Jan 3, 2007 4:57 pm
Originally Posted by jerry a. laska
98N . 4. TRAVEL MAY ORIGINATE AT ANY POINT FOR WHICH A
99N . FARE IS PUBLISHED AND MUST TERMINATE AT THE SAME
100N . POINT OR ANY POINT IN THE COUNTRY OF ORIGIN. IN
101N . NO EVENT MAY TRAVEL CONTINUE BEYOND THE ORIGINAL
102N . POINT OF ORIGIN.
It appears to be a valid routing to me.
Hi jerry,

Where did you get those rules from as it's different from that quoted by me in terms of transiting the point of origin:
F. TRAVEL MAY ORIGINATE AT ANY POINT FOR WHICH FARES ARE PUBLISHED AND
MUST TERMINATE AT THE SAME POINT OR AN INTERMEDIATE POINT IN THE
COUNTRY OF ORIGIN. THE POINT OF ORIGIN MAY BE RETRANSITTED ONCE
PROVIDING NO STOPOVER IS TAKEN.
The quote I provided was extracted from Expert Flyer Yesterday.

Mind you, the same EF rules had the following contradiction as well:
--- TRAVEL VIA THE POINT OF ORIGIN NOT PERMITTED. ---
:confused:

christep Jan 3, 2007 5:17 pm
Originally Posted by wallaby (Post 6945102)
So looking at reverse of the original routing, it seems to me there is no way using Oneworld of doing SYD or BNE to the USA via NRT without an overnight at NRT. Am I correct?
Well QF21 SYD-NRT arrives at 06:10, so I don't think so!

jerry a. laska Jan 3, 2007 5:18 pm
Hi Serfty,
I took it from usermark's site. But looking at EF I see the difference now. Plus it seems the fare rules are slightly different depending upon which airline's fare rules for the DCIR you look up. I agree that your language appears to be the most recent.
Sorry,
jerry

serfty Jan 3, 2007 5:50 pm
No need to apologise ... :D

Any, that still does not sort out the issues with the contradictory text ... :confused:

wallaby Jan 4, 2007 11:11 am
Originally Posted by christep (Post 6945585)
Well QF21 SYD-NRT arrives at 06:10, so I don't think so!
Thanks, but I made an error. I should have said "BNE", not "SYD or BNE". Ending our Australian travel in BNE, and don't really want to do the extra hop back to SYD.

christep Jan 4, 2007 11:44 am
In that case you need to wait for JAL to join OW - then it will be possible on their BNE-NRT flight which arrives at 16:45...


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