Grrrr... CX in JNB
 

Through my TA I'm trying to get an AONEWC3 issued by CX in JNB - and their service just sucks. The simplest queries are brushed off with no thought given and cryptic responses (typed in capitals with numerous typos as if to underline how little they care) are returned. E.g. they claim I can't have open segments, which I challenged. When my TA asked for the fare rules she was told the CX agent was "too busy" and she should call Galileo. :rolleyes: Eventually I got the fare and rules for an AONE4, which isn't exactly the same thing. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I can't believe that one of the top airlines in the world allows this. (I had better service from BA in HRE for heaven's sake.) Sadly I am at their mercy since BA here won't touch it "because CX is your outgoing carrier". :mad:

Anyway, excuse me for venting. Just wanted your opinion: do I phone and complain to the office manager at CX at the risk of making myself unpopular (with what possible consequences?), or do I just grit my teeth and keep pushing gently?

I'd keep pushing gently, and save all complaints to management for later, if at all. Perhaps an email to HQ, but always with ticket in hand, just in case.

Thanks for containing my frustration, Viagero.

But I do wonder why one should pussyfoot around such bad service. Is it because we know the prices are amazingly low and we don't want to jeopardise them? That's a bit perverse. If your local supermarket has a special on the shelf and you enquire about its qualities, do you get any less annoyed to be told to pi$$ off? They put the goods on the shelf and they put the price on them - why should the customer accept less than the normal levels of service?

Many have speculated that the "quality" airlines don't really buy into the OW fare offerings and I firmly believe it's true. They can't find an excuse quickly enough to rid themselves of any OW fare problems. It's things like this that make you realise that alliances are really only skin deep. :rolleyes:

You don't, but you time your salvo so as to minimize the chances of your file being lost, your application misplaced, or your only shirt being ironed with a crease, all of it by accident, of course. :)

I disagree, and do not think this is true at all. The OW airlines are all onboard with the various fare offerings, and adjust the fare or rules when they don't like it -- in fact OW promotes these fares quite a bit. The problem is with the training and resources available to the individual agent, and with the use of outsourced agents (not employess of the airline). When an agent is confronted with a task (issuing a complex ticket and researching the fare rules) but doesn't have the tools for it, the result is not too surprising: they try to palm it off on either the next agent to deal with, or for the client to go away and not come back. I've had this happen dozens of times (it is worse for re-issues!) and I sympathize with the agent. But the problem is not due to a "decision" by an airline to not sell these fares! The trick to solving this problem is to find an agent or their supervisor who is able to work on it and obtains the resources needed. In your case, calling the CX office in the US to set up the reservation and fare would be the simplest solution, they can do all the work and the CX office in JNB just has to issue the ticket. Probably calling CX in HKG would also work, but I think the US office (which is actually in YVR) is more skilled with this and better able to understand English over the phone.

Yes - but why are YOU doing all the chasing around? Shouldn't your TA be the one that should be doing the fare requests for you? Yes your agent should be more on top of things which includes getting the fare rules in the system that the TA uses which in this case is Gallileo.

Your TA should be the one that sets up the booking, and sends the info to CX for fare quote. CX then has to calculate the fare and send it back to your TA. Okay so they say that open segments not permitted - perhaps they are talking about an e-ticket which is correct. So just stick a couple of dates in and change it later.

CX isn't unhelpful. I believe it is your TA that is not getting all the information correct and that is why the airline won't help in doing the TA's job.

Why be masochistic about the thing? Email the Cathay office in CMB to get a price for your ex-JNB ticket; I'd be shocked if they didn't get back to you with a price in 24 hours, and they know the rules as well as anyone. I don't know the politics about picking it up in JNB - there seem to be some people in the office there that need attitude adjustment.

Why does Cathay tolerate this kind of behavior? Probably they have an employment environment that gives them no alternative.

Viagero, I will keep the toys firmly in the cot for the time being. And will first try to remedy the situation using the advice of others.

Guy Betsy, you're right: my TA is no brain surgeon to put it kindly. I just thought that if I could give her all the right questions, CX would be able to do the rest. Will find another TA.

JohnAx, I have resisted your suggestion, as echoed by number_6, up to now - to my own cost. I will take your advice sooner in future.

Trouble now is that the TA sits with my booking, and on some flights the A or D availability is now zero, so I can't really start from scratch with another entity. How to transfer the booking without offending my dim (but occasionally very useful) TA?

Just wait till you get to the airport.....
 

I flew out on CX last week from JNB to HKG. Boarding was an endurance test...

First we were told Gate 8....on my way to gate 8 I met people on the way back who told me they had been told it was gate 23. On the board they were showing gate 28, in the end it was gate 21.... :rolleyes:

Boarding was a mess. Two signs showing Boarding Zones 1 and 2 were at head height and fairly visible. The sign for business and first was at breast height and invisible in the throngs of people.

We then boarded a bus. The bus became full and closed the doors. Instead of driving off they parked another bus in front so the full bus couldn't go anywhere. Consequently both buses arrived at the plane at the same time. Programmed bunfight....

To be honest, I started to get aggravated but then common sense kicked in and I just shrugged it off thinking "this is Africa...."

JNB is becoming a circus - but not the entertaining type. You can be thankful that your experience happened at midday and not in the evening when the place is filled to bursting with all the long-haul flights about to leave for Europe.

It's not just Africa - it's ACSA! What a bunch of incompetents. :mad:

I believe the agent will "own" the booking after it's ticketed until you fly the first segment, but for now I think the space is yours to manage as you wish. (The experts can correct this.) I suppose your TA might be miffed at losing the commission, but it seems to me that you've been trying to get this thing booked for two months or more, with frustration after frustration. I suggest you use one of the suggested paths to get the tickets in your pocket; if the TA whimpers about it, explain that you thought you were doing him a favor by lifting an obviously unpleasant burden from his shoulders.

Then see if any of your compatriots can recommend a better TA.

If you're prepared to take the $125 hit, why not just take a simple ATW ticket now so that you have the sectors which you cannot replace and then just get the ticket reissued when you get to your 1st stop with the sectors desired

If the problems are minor issues such as their inability to do open sectors, just take them with dates in them.

Dave

Now the same runaround for a reissue!
 

I now need my ticket reissued and since I am back in CPT I e-mailed the request to the CX fares office in JNB. This is the verbatim reply:
"Pax can go to any CX office wherever they are and get ticket re-issued as ONE WORLD rules are the same worldwide". Oh, that really helps. :rolleyes: So I phone CX and explain that I am not going to travel to JNB for a reissue. The very helpful lady agrees and says send an e-mail with the request. I say I've just done that! She says she will speak to the fares person and revert. Fares person phones me. It takes a while to persuade her that I'm not in London (the last segment used ended there) but have used another means to get to CPT. Once she fathoms that she says I must go back to the TA that handled the original issue. Oh brother, I really was hoping to avoid that!

TA sends the requested changes through for pricing and CX responds that I can't use EI as it's no longer part of OW! :mad: I have provided my TA with the OW information and the ticket conditions to challenge that, but it looks like this is going to be just as arduous a process as the original issue was. And all because of the fact that the only person at CX in JNB who deals this is an ignorant PITA. :td:

Try escalation to the office manager (who unfortunately may or may not be better.) That worked for me when I first approached IBL in Mauritius - the office girls were useless, but the boss was really on top of things.

Good advice, as always. My TA has taken it up with the Relationship Manager at CX who has undertaken to deal with it herself. Apparently she was on the fares desk for BA previously so should be knowledgeable. Fingers crossed...

Actually , since you are in CPT, why not go to BA yourself?

I'll try that if this current attempt fails. Maybe I'm paranoid but given that they wouldn't touch it at the issue stage because CX was the first transcontinental carrier, I half expect them to tell me I must go back to CX since they issued it.

You can insist for any OW carrier (even EI until April 1) to reissue any OWE ticket. The Oneworld agreement rules are that they must do so. Now they can make your life very miserable, and make lots of mistakes, but they are not allowed to refuse. The initial ticket issue allows the airlines to refuse, only the airline flying the first international sector must issue the ticket (they don't have a choice). E-tickets really complicate things, often only the issuing airline can see the whole ticket, but that is an implementation problem and a choice by the airlines to not spend the money to fix it.

They also can't tell you to go back to the issuing agent as you have already started your journey. Any reissuing is going to complicate matters with the TA anyway.. and you do not necessarily have to do it with CX. if your ticket is a paper ticket, then any OW agent should be able to handle rebooking and reissuing issues.

Why not BA? Especially since your onward from LHR is most likely on BA , yes?

I might be wrong but IIRC, I guess it is/was a BD award, cash+miles.

In my experience, BA and CX don't always see it that way. Both airlines have declined my attempts at a reissue in the past and sent me to another airline.

On the other hand, just this Wednesday CX in HKG handled an emergency reissue for AA on the ticket that I am on now. The CX agent had to send and receive several faxes to AA and spend about an hour on the phone. Two agents worked my case under pressure of a departing flight and got it done. My loyalty to CX just went up a couple of floors.

On the OW forum? ;) No, Guy Betsy is spot on. My flights from now on will mainly be with BA except for 2 segments on EI.

???
IIRC it was an AONEWC3. See this thread.

Reminds me of LHR! :D

I was referring to the way to/from LON, I know that the other one is a OW RTW or similar!:D

I must have mixed up FT'ers!

This matches my experience too - about once a year I get CX ATO to reissue a AONE3 from AA stock (from Cairo previously), arriving about 3 hours before the flight I am next to take (and for which the reroute is needed). It has never been a major problem (although it gets reissued as CX stock), and if it's going to take more than half an hour or so I normally end up awaiting my new ticket in The Wing. On one occasion where my next two flights were to somewhere (NRT?) and back on CX I was given boarding passes for those flights, a message was sent to NRT to make sure there would be no problem there, and I picked up the reissued ticket when I returned to HKG.

It's Service (with a capital S) - and it's a great shame that CX now seems to be going down the road of disaggregating all their charges so that we get ncikel 'n' dimed every time they lift a finger. If I'm paying several thousand US$ for a ticket I don't want the hassle of being charged for a few minutes of someone's time to enable me to use that ticket within the terms of the contract I originally accepted. It's not the amount that's the issue, it's the pettiness of it, which does CX's image as a Premium Service Provider no good at all.

LHR is much worse now in every point that I would vote on. International to domestic connections are sooo much easier in JNB than LHR.

This time CX reissued a ticket on AA ticket stock for me (i.e., its still an AA ticket). Didn't think that was possible. It wasn't even the people at the checkin ticket counter. This was at the transfer desk.

OTOH since this is becoming a Cathay-everywhere thread I might again mention that Cathay told me a couple of months ago that they will no longer do xONEx reissues at LAX. SFO and Vancouver were the choices they offered me. I'd guess they'd accommodate a traveler with an immediate problem - my request was for travel some weeks ahead. I ended up letting AA do it. It was painful as usual, but most of the pain was borne by the Aagent at ONT who no doubt was having her very first experience with such a ticket. All I had to do was stand around for a couple of hours feeling sorry for her.

Typically I call AA myself to change the reservation and get it repriced even when I have paper tickets. It usually only take 5 minutes to get the tickets reissued at check in then.

There must be two different American Airlines. Or maybe I always arrive when a janitor or someone chooses to play dress-up and puts on a uniform and stands at the counter pretending to be an agent, when in fact their skill is with a mop.

AA almost never can "see" particulars of my paper tickets, no matter who's issued them, so it's always "take them to the airport" where the befuddled agent typically spends two hours on the phone back and forth between the rate desk and the atw desk.

The one time the atw desk "set me up" no one thought about the detail that the tax calc line had to be printable within the little box. I guess the agent could have opted to hand-write but instead fooled around for half an hour editing the line so it was illegible but fit(and earned me some charges on departures downline).

The only bright side is that often enough the agent waives the re-issue fee out of sympathy for making such a charade out of it.

FYI - to whoever cares...

All airlines are supposed to be able to see each other's e-ticketing information even when it is issued on another airlines' stock. They are supposed to be able to reissue tickets either on their own or other Oneworld airlines' stock.

They better get used to it - as come 2008, all oneworld tickets may be electronic anyway!