E-Ticket problems with Explorer RTW
 

Cathay Pacific and Finnair have both had challenges checking me in on my OWE ticket. The issue seems to be linking the correct ticket number and coupon number to the correct flight. They have not given me any grief, other than commenting on the length of my ticket. However it does take about 20 mins to check in as they page through multiple screens, call supervisors, etc...

FYI, my ticket has 4 ticket numbers and 20 segments.

Is it possible to get a paper ticket? I'm not sure I would if I could. I've made a few changes to my ticket and it's been very easy to Skype out to AA's RTW desk. They've made my changes very efficiently. Try changing a paper ticket with an airline service agent who handles 20 airlines and has never seen and RTW ticket before. I'd prefer to spend 20 mins patiently checking in each time to hassling with service agents.

A side comment is that only Finnair has checked me in for another airline, in this case BA. AA could not check me into QF or CX. CX could not check me into BA/AY.

But were the making the changes properly? You are lucky that none of your segments on other airlines got "accidentally" cancelled when you made the changes with AA RTW desk (sometimes it happens if they forget to input the ticket number and associate it with the segment as some carriers would cancel segments if no ticket number is received after a certain deadline).

When changing a flight, the AA RTW desk needs to make sure that each new segment booked must be associated with its own SSR TKNE message line that is sent to the other carrier (linking the new segment to the 001XXXXXXXXXX ticket number).

FYI, As far as I know (from a Sabre TA's point of view), when flights on CX are rebooked (no change in routing, but change of flight/date) and CX 160 e-ticket stock is used, the e-ticket record automatically gets updated if cancellation of the old segment and rebooking of the new segment is done in the same transaction. Otherwise, a SSR TKNM 160XXXXXXXXXX message (manual ticket number entry) will have to be associated to that "new segment" and and OSI CX ET message sent as well so that CX would re-link the segment to the e-ticket (as the travel agent version of Sabre does not allow agents to enter the SSR TKNE message which automatically links the segment with the exact e-ticket coupon directly [to prevent fraud?]).

???????

Er what?

To the OP, PaulSEA, which airline issued the ticket ?

I has the same problem with my RTW AONE3 issued by AA last year. 16 sectors and everyone took 10-20 mins to check in.

Happened to me too on a DONE3 earlier this year, and that one had only 7 or 8 segments total. The check-in problem also arose towards the latter of half of the trip though. Apparently a problem with linking ticket numbers to the PNR.

daniellam, being outside the industry I have no idea what you're talking about, but you've earned by instant admiration for being able to spout details like that.

My own experiences with AA, too often recounted here, would make me shy about letting them deal with an e-ticket. On one re-issue, even the paper ticket they handed me wasn't recognized by computers other than theirs. Fortunately, I wasn't running late when I joined Cathay at JFK - it took them an hour to sort it out (which they nicely did for all the remaining segments).

It may be an issue of training budget.

To the OP and others...

Out of curiousity, are you guy flying the segments of your multisegment AONE/DONE e-tickets within a short period of time and on multiple carriers that are different from that of the ticket issuing carrier?

I am suspecting that your 10-20 minute check-in time for each segment may have to do with the carriers and/or ground handling agencies using "working copies" vs. "live copies" of e-ticket records (when the e-ticket is issued by another airline).

As in a paper ticket, the segments on an e-ticket must be flown in the order as shown on the ticket.

Say you have an e-ticket issued by AA with segments on CX and BA in addition to AA. (In this hypothetical situation, this e-ticket will have only 3 segments, one with AA, then the next with BA, and next with CX)

JFK-LHR AA
LHR-HKG BA
HKG-JFK CX

The E-ticket record (referred to as "ETR") when first generated will reside in AA's system, and "working copies" sent to BA and CX. BA and CX will each take "control" of the flight coupons involving their flights a certain number of hours before the flight (usually 72 hours).

Say you have just flown the JFK-LHR AA segment, In AA's system, the "live copy" of the ETR will then be updated to show the AA segment as "FLOWN" (or "CKIN" if you have just checked in but not flown the segment yet).

However, once you get to LHR and decide to fly the BA segment segment to HKG, when checking in, the BA agent pulls up the "working copy" of AA's ETR from their system and sees that the previous JFK-LHR AA segment is marked as "OPEN FOR USE" along with the other segments. On first thought, he/she may have thought that you didn't fly the JFK-LHR segment and tried to board at LHR. But then what they then would do is to "connect" to AA's system and "refresh" the ETR to see what exactly has happened. They see that your JFK-LHR AA segment has indeed been marked as "FLOWN". This gives them the OK to then check you in for the LHR HKG BA segment (which is then updated to "CKIN" after check-in and then "FLOWN" once airborne).

Once you get to HKG, something similar happens again... When the CX agent pull up the record (yes, it's the "working copy" on their system!!) of the AA E-ticket, they will see that your JFK-LHR AA segment as "FLOWN". After all that time, the "working copy" in CX's system would have been synchronized with that of the "live copy" in AA's system, right? Not exactly, your LHR-HKG BA segment is still showing "OPEN FOR USE" along with your HKG-JFK CX segment.

The CX agent would then have to connect to AA's system and pull up the "live copy" of the ETR so that they can refresh their "working copy" and then your LHR-HKG BA segment would show as "FLOWN" before they can check you in for your HKG-JFK CX segment.

Ideally, after a certain period of time, the "working copies" of the ETR on the various carrier's system will be synchronized with that of the "live copy" on the issuing carrier's system.

If you flew via DXB, then this would have futher complicate things as they use DNATA as their ground handling agent. Think of all the fun their agents will have checking in a FTer who's on an aggressive mileage run on multiple carriers :)

There has to be a way for you to explain all that, daniellam without us having to consult an encyclopedia on your jargon, please.

Thanks daniellam. Very clear. I'll be going through this scenario in November so it'll be interesting to see what happens.

My comment on all the above is "interesting" but does a passenger need a PhD to fly rtw? The lesson to me is allow extra time when checking in RTW.

AA issued the ticket.

Some guidance now on cxagents.com:
So obviously this is quite a common problem.

I must admit to being confused by this thread.

Are you saying that AA issued a 20-segment RTW ticket electronically?

I was under the impression - from personal experience - that it was generally impossible - and certainly impossible if AA is doing the ticketing - to get a 20-segment itinerary issued electronically.

I tried to get AA in Osaka to issue a 20-segment DONE4. After an hour of phone calls etc. etc. they concluded it was all too diffcult for them and they wanted Cathay to do it, as the first legs were on Cathay and "CX could do it electronically". It took CX 4 days to get it done (and repeated visits on our part to their ticket counter in Osaka). Needless to say, it wasn't electronic (because it was over 16 segments) but at least the flight coupons were machine-produced.

I had AA in the U.S. issue a DONE4 last week (with 20 segments). That one is - literally - handwritten. The old slick, carbon tickets that I thought were now only in a museum somewhere. AA couldn't even machine-produce the coupons let alone do it electronically. The AA RTW told me to allow plenty of time to issue the ticket as it would have to be hand-written.

Are you sure you have a 20 segment electronic ticket issued by AA? If so, I'd love to know how you did it.

Because of routing changes, I had AA re-issue the original DONE4 (from Osaka) last week. Because that is now less than 16 segments, AA re-issued it as an electronic ticket.

Thanks, very nice explanation how the e-ticket works between different carriers.

What happens if the ticket was fully flexible and you would like to change the LHR-HKG flight to a new carrier, let's say QF or VS?

Can the ticket office for QF of VS take control of the ticket, do you need to get BA to delegate it ot QF/VS or how does it work?

Tickets and reservations are two separate things (although sometimes linked). It is perfectly possible to make a reservation without a ticket or to have a flexible ticket coupon without a reservation. If you have a full fare ticket for LHR-HKG on, say, BA ticket stock and you wish to travel on CX (and, frankly, who wouldn't especially now that BA is shafting everyone with new baggage rules?) then all you need to do is call CX to get a reservation on the flight you require in Y, J or F (whichever full fare class your ticket is in) and give them the BA ticket number.

In principle, any airline should accept a full fare ticket regardless of which airline issued it. In practice, because there are so many different sets of ticket rules these days, and it isn't always clear what is an absolutely open full-fare ticket, the carrier you wish to travel on may request that the carrier which issued the ticket endorse it for use on different carriers, in which case you would need to get BA to put a sticker on the ticket coupon (if paper) or endorse it electronically (if e-tkt). Of course, BA being BA they might try to charge you GBP25 for doing this... and in principle it isn't really necessary since the official IATA ticketing rules are (I believe) that a ticket is valid on any airline that flies that route unless there are endorsements that limit that validity.

Not quite -- the official IATA rules regarding endorsement requirements are so complex that they include a full-page flow-chart.

You are correct in saying that, in general, "a ticket is valid on any airline that flies that route unless there are endorsements that limit that validity", however that still does not negate the formal requirements.