eVIP for your help with RTW
 

Folks,

My RTW experience goes back to Pan American flights # 1 & 2. In 2005 I made 14 RTW trips. 10 with Oneworld and 4 with Star Alliance. However, they were all for business and I never considered adding extra segments, or in any way going for extra miles.

Now, I have partially retired, and want to retain EXP at least for another year, so I want to take my wife on a AONE4 to help that effort along.

I have knowledge of the basic rules, have read the "stickies", looked at the validater sites, etc., but know some of you folks have this stuff tweaked to the maximum.

So, I would like help to arrive at a suitable itinerary, for which I will offer an EVIP expiring 2/2007 to whoever presents such a valid itinerary with maximum miles.

Because my wife is going (no quick turn arounds!), I may not be able to maximize miles, but here are some guidelines:

Trip will happen about 12 June.
Need to be in SIN 26-30 June
I wish to stop over in DXB, HKG, SYD, AUK, PVG and SIN
Cairns? Darwin?
SIN or PVG hopefully as last stop before returning to USA
I realize PVG may require separate ticket from HKG or wherever
Departure from either MCO or TPA – no difference
Europe first
Make best use of first class by using flights with 1st
Use extra NA segments at end of trip, maybe much later
No troublesome spots
CX my favorite international airline

Either submit to my PM or here in the forum.

I'll take a stab at it.

MCO-LAX-LHR on AA
LHR-DXB on BA, stopover
DXB-LHR on BA

If you are inclined to earn extra miles here, you can take another RT from LHR to any country within Europe not on the prohibited list, but I can't think of any flights that have A class.

LHR-HKG-SYD on CX, stopover in SYD (not HKG)
SYD-AKL on LA, stopover
AKL-SYD on LA

Now you have to decide what's more important: visiting both DRW/CNS or CX 1st class.

Option 1: SYD-DRW on QF (biz only)
DRW-CNS on QF (biz only)
CNS-HKG on CX (biz only)
Option 2: SYD-[DRW or CNS]-SYD round trip (biz only)
SYD-HKG on CX (1st class)

Separate RT ticket to PVG.
If there's time and inclination, a RT on CX to some other place in Asia.
HKG-SIN on CX, stopover (some flights have a 1st class section)
SIN-HKG on CX stopover

HKG-JFK on CX
LGA-TPA/MCO on AA.

So far that's 15 segments. Use the last 5 for obscure routing to ANC, like MCO-BOS-DFW-ANC-DFW-MCO.
Or start the trip in MIA, buying your own way from MCO (MIA-LHR). Then you have 6 segments left, and you can use 4 of them on MCO-DFW-ANC-DFW-MCO and use the other 2 for one of the optional round trips in Europe or Asia.

Overlaps a lot of Usermark's suggestions, but a bit different.

TPA-MIA-LAX: The Miami to LAX is on the 763, which is basically (imo) AA's second best plane. I haven't taken it since they restarted using the 763, but I took it before and the service was good.

LAX-LHR: May the suite gods be with you.

LHR-DXB-LHR: Only way of getting to Dubai and back.

LHR-HKG-SYD: Enjoy Cathay First.

SYD-DRW-CNS-BNE-AKL: Your intra-SWP flights.

AKL-MEL: You would need to buy this on your own. I am going to go out on a limb here and assume that service and luxury is more impt than price. Emirates runs the A345 on this route for abotu $600 in First. That's with the suites with the doors and all. With this ticket, you also get car service in Auckland and Melbourne if you stop.

MEL-HKG-SIN: Again, enjoy CX first.

SIN-HKG: I would add another flight in here, not as a turnaround but with a few days stop. Bali, India, Malaysia, Tokyo, etc. Best experience will be on the nonstop Tokyo flights.

HKG-PVG-HKG: This one you're on your own with.

HKG-JFK: The nonstop can be hard to get from reports on this board.

JFK-MIA: I don't know if the flights fit, but AA does run a 762 on this route.

MIA-MCO: You will need to go into MCO instead of TPA because if you go into TPA then your trip ends.

MCO-XXX-TPA: Fill in the XXX with a flight that services both MCO and TPA. LGA, ORD, SJU, DFW, whatever. You just can't leave the country.

So the Oneworld part of the trip would be:
TPA-MIA-LAX-LHR-DXB-LHR-HKG-SYD-DRW-CNS-BNE-AKL//
MEL-HKG-SIN-HKG-XXX-HKG-JFK-MIA-MCO-XXX-TPA

BUT....

You have put a constraint on your trip that I would rethink. That is, you are squeezing a lot into a short amount of time. Flying does take time, so you're really looking at very short stays in each of these cities.

Here's what I mean. You leave Tampa (a lovely city, I might add) on the 12th. You leave through LAX, arrive in London on the 13th, and arrive in Dubai the morning of the 14th. You say a night and leave on the morning of the 16th (1am). You arrive in London later that day. You leave for Hong Kong that evening, arriving on the 17th, and then leave for Sydney, arriving on the 18th. You stay a couple of nights and go to Darwin. Stay a night and leave for Cairns. Stay a night and connect through Brisbane to Auckland. It's now the 21st. Here, you can stay two nights. Head to Melbourne on the 24th, connecting via Hong Kong to Singapore. Arrive either the 25th or the morning of the 26th.

So, you have stayed one night in Dubai, two in Sydney, one in each of Darwin and Cairns, and two in Auckland. I am tired even thinking of it. That is a hell of a lot of traveling for those short of times. Doesn't matter if you're in first or not. And add an Asian side trip, that just takes a couple days more.

What I would personally do is to go the other direction, time permitting. I would go to Australia first:

TPA-MIA-JFK-HKG-SYD-DRW-CNS-BNE-AKL//
MEL-HKG-SIN-HKG-LHR-DXB-LHR-LAX-MIA-MCO-XXX-TPA

You'll have more time in Australia and NZ and things will be less rushed. This, of course, assumes time isn't completely constrained.

With this routing, you leave on the 12th, connect via Hong Kong and arrive in Sydney on the 14th. Stay three nights in Sydney, two in each of Darwin and Cairns, and three in Auckland. This makes it the 24th. Go to Singapore via Melbourne and Hong Kong, and arrive the 25th or 26th.

So instead of six nights in the SWP, you have 10. Stop in Dubai on the return for a couple of nights, and head on home.

UserMark / Darren et al? Change in priority
 

Although I still prefer to start in Europe, I feel Darren is correct about the time, especially with my wife along.

Therefore, I'm going to have to leave Australia (SWP) for the last.

Thanks for two really good posts.

Darren deserves the eVIP
 

as the inventor of the Dubai loop on FT (going back many years now). He first made the suggestion to include a LHR-DXB-LHR loop in F on BA as it was "free" on the OWE tickets. And has provided dozens of great suggestions since then.

The suggested routings are close to optimal. The primary choice is whether to go MIA-LAX-LHR on AA (taking advantage of the longer in-air service times, the LAX F lounge) or do MIA-LHR on BA (not quite enough time to both eat and sleep on the plane, but a much earlier arrival into London). The LAX flight arrives after noon which is either good or bad (depending on what you want to be doing in London). Personally I prefer the AA service LAX-LHR which is often quite good (and competitive with BA, the only route that this is the case).

As a practical matter it is almost impossible to get 2 A seats on LAN for SYD-AKL, so buying on EK is a great suggestion (as long as EK continues to use A345s on this route). Rumour has it that they've stopped offering these USD 600 discounted F fares trans-tasman, but if you can still snag one it is quite a find (just the limo part is worth a third of the fare).

Heh. Thanks. Quite an honor. :)

Expedia has the EK flights still, but it's more expensive coming from Australia. About $100 more, again one-way.

The LAX-London flight has been a mixed bag for me. The flights on the suites were great, and maybe only the food on BA was better. But my last flight on the coffins was terrible. It was about a year ago now. The config was changed the day of travel, which annoyed me to no end, the flight attendants were only okay, the food was okay, and I was next to someone who sneezed on me all flight. While I know the last isn't the fault of AA, I thought it was a very average flight.

You mentioned the BA MIA-LHR flight. Quick note that the OP wants EXP status, so instead it could be subbed for the AA flight on the same route (or ORD). Just, whatever you do, don't go through JFK. My flight was *horrible* and since then I have seen on this board that my experience was not uncommon. Miami does have two great Admiral Clubs in Miami, especially the one outside Terminal E.

I haven't caught up on the rules lately; unless something prohibits it, why use AA to LHR at all unless it's for scheduling/routing? One can leave from YYZ/YVR/MEX on BA and earn miles and Q-points in AAdvantage as normal.

I've done it a few times-- including once with Darren-- I never knew he was the originator! :)

I know it is an unpopular position on FT, but I find AA to be quite good as an airline much of the time and about half the time I pick AA instead of BA for trans-Atlantic travel -- because I want to, and not because I am coerced. AA planes are generally in superior mechanical condition, their pilots are better than average, in fact much of the "invisible" part of the airline is far better than average. And sometimes I care about that more than the wine served (though these days AA is a match for BA in food and wine quality trans-Atlantic). Service out of LAX tends to be markedly better than out of JFK, for example.

Not that it makes much difference, but as far as I'm aware you are allowed to transit, or even stopover at, your point of origin:

I don't know, mrboah. It appears usermark's rules are updated and this is the only reference in stopovers. New rule change? The set indicates it is valid as of 18APR06.

Other changes I see:
1) New countries from two max from UK rule: Serbia, Croatia, Montenegro
2) AA Fuel surcharges now set per the rules. $55 transatl, $110 to Delhi, $66 transpac, and $55 to southam.
3) Removed unlimited online interline transfers (but that had constructively been removed due to the 20 segment max so no biggie)
4) No free reroute for death in Area 1
5) You're now allowed to change flights before the 1st international flight and preceeding flights after departure from ticket issued in Areas 2 or 3
6) At any time, you can change a OWE to a GlobEX for no charge, assuming the trip fits within the parameters of the GlobEX.

There might be more, but it's 1am and I don't see any more in my sleepy state.

Nothing really earthshattering other than 5), which I imagine will cut down on having to reroute in certain circumstances.

ATTN: Darrin and UserMark
 

Both of you responded with such details, commentary, and suggested itineraries, that I would like to offer both of you a eVIP. We can work out the details later.

I would appreciate one last effort from both of you is you find the time in the next few days.

As outlined in my second post, I will do SWP last. So would like your further thoughts as for the itinerary after arriving HKG from LHR.

Returning home from SWP I’m thinking via HKG. I would like to take the CX HKG-JFK flight but know there is little chance. What I have done in the past is arrive HKG the night before, ticketed for the HKG-LAX flight, and check with the counter at “B” about availability for the JFK flight the next morning. It has always worked – after paying the $75 change fee. I’ll try the same thing this trip but realize with two traveling, it will be less likely.

FYI – My outbound will be MCO-LAX-LHR-ATH-LHR-DXB-LHR-HKG

Again, thanks to everyone for the comments

Unfortunately, you can't do both ATH and DXB from LHR - both are on the "two flights only" list - see Line 61 on the rules (update posted today at http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=553283 ) If you're looking for intra-Europe miles, IST or the Canary Islands are still okay.

MIA has a new AC in the D terminal, inside security, which IMHO is better than the one outside security in E. Also, any day now (maybe :confused: ) AA is promising to open the doors to a very new A terminal AC, and when and if that happens, the E club will be no more.

Also, there is a BA Terraces club in terminal A but access may/may not happen according to the wishes of the BA dragons at the door, unless of course you fly the world's favourite airline :rolleyes: (do a search on the AA forum, it's a mix of success at best, but definitely leaning towards refusal when flying other OW airlines)

Lpeterman, that is very kind of you. Thanks. I just try to do what I can do to help because I enjoy it. I love to travel internationally and I enjoy thinking about all the different places I would like to go.

Andrezej, I was in the D terminal about a couple of weeks after it opened. I think it was last september. About three weeks before, it was just the temp club. Mom and I had a longish layover so we went to the E club. I don't recally how long it had been open for, but it had been a few months, iirc. I actually preferred the E club a lot more. It was lighter and airier and I loved the open area adjacent to the bar. My big butt sank into one of those oversized seats and I was in heaven. I actually am one of the three people on FT who likes going through Miami so I will look forward to the A terminal (though I let my AC membership lapse). Shame it will be at the expense of the E club.

Unless I'm on that list you can make it four. I LIKE MIA. Heck, I even like the cheesy airport hotel (for day-room use, I'd like it a lot less for an overnight).

And Number_6 I agree with you in that I am very happy with AA. The F suite is a great product, and it'll become a much more difficult choice once AA gets the fleet all reconfigured so I don't ever step on a plane again to find 2x2x2 coffins and a sinus-infected seatmate who sneezes at me all night. For me though, one other factor tips the scales to BA. IMO no experience matches the F cabin in the 744. Sorry for going OT. :D

Thanks,
 

Although I wanted my wife to feel the history, I was motivated by the miles and the equipment BA flew there. Thanks for clearing my vision.

IIRC the 767 used on the ATH runs has the standard Club Europe setup as the IST 767s. Not uncomfortable, but not all that grand. But of course IST is very interesting; one can see a lot in a day, and LHR-DXB-LHR-IST-LHR is a valid route.

I was also thinking you could go LHR-PVG (first class sold on that BA flight) then (your own dime) PVG-PEK on CA - $196 in J or $225 in F one way on a 744 :eek: - then PEK-HKG-NRT-HKG-SIN-SYD to maximize FC possibilities on CX and QF/BA.

I don't believe you can transit Asia between Oz and N. America (only Europe-Oz) so you'd need to ride QF metal across the Pacific. If you wanted one last shot at CX F, though, you could go SYD-(SFO)-YVR on QF, then CX888 YVR-JFK, maybe after decompressing for a day or two in Vancouver. The YVR-JFK flight would be your one allowed N. America transcon, but that would only be available if you didn't start the RTW with MCO-LAX. If you started MIA-LHR you could do it, or even MCO-ORD-LHR. (Or, maybe less convenient but you get BA FC, go MIA-YYZ-LHR to start.)

From NYC you could go home with a few coupons left (but only one stopover if you spend a night in YVR or NYC, etc.)

Inside Europe i would take MAD-FRA on LAN Chile on their new C and F Class A340!

It would depend on how it was exactly done and his luck in ticketing.

LAX-HKG(stop)-SYD-HKG(transit)-LHR is valid under the rules and I think most or all airlines recognize this. The problems come more from travel agents and ticket shops that misinterpret the rules.

LAX-HKG(transit)-SYD-HKG(transit)-LHR is a matter of luck. I don't personally believe the rules allow it and most airlines agree. But some miss it and do ticket it now and then as has been reported on the board.

The OP in a subsequent post said they were going "to have to leave Australia (SWP) for the last." It sounds like they mean go to Asia first and then to Australia. That routing would be the first I mentioned and would be valid to use CX the whole way.

Would end up something like TPA-MIA-JFK-HKG-SIN-HKG-SYD-DRW-CNS-BNE-AKL//MEL-
HKG-LHR-DXB-LHR-LAX-MIA-TPA with two more segments available in each of North America and Asia.

To lpeterman, even with your wife, if you don't have time to stay anywhere else in Asia, see if you can get her to do a turnaround to NRT to use those two Asia segments. Not only is it 10k more miles, assuming you're then plat or exec plat, but it's one of the nicest flights I have taken on the CX network. Although I haven't had the kaiseki meal on CX, people are very complimentary of it. But even without, it's about a day trip and an easy set of flights. Maybe she would be less resistant if you were able to stay a night or two in Tokyo.

I completely agree with kanebear in the above post. I am a fairly loyal AA flyer based in LA. However if I know that coffins will be the first class seating I immediately call BA and have ticket endorsed to fly BA F in the 744. It is a tougher decision if AA has the suites. If only AA gave out pajamas and had a true sleeper seat type of experience I would fly AA exclusively with the suite configuration...

lpeterman,
Thanks for your nice offer. Here are some more ideas for you.

You can do both ATH and DXB, and you can accomplish this in one of 2 ways.
1. The London prohibition only applies to free segments. So if you wanted to fly LHR-ATH, you would have to buy 2 additional biz segments (there's no 1st on that route) at $400 each. These 2 extra sements would still contribute to your 20 segments maximum.
2. You can buy a separate RT ticket (probably cheap) LHR-MAD and go on the IB flight to ATH, without having to buy extra segments. IB also has only a biz class section.

As for the return from SWP on CX, here is the rule we're all talking about:

ONLY 1 INTERCONTINENTAL DEPARTURE AND 1
124N . INTERCONTINENTAL ARRIVAL PERMITTED IN EACH
125N . CONTINENT EXCEPT AS FOLLOWS:
128N . * 2 PERMITTED IN ASIA WHEN 1 IS A TRANSIT
129N . WITHOUT
130N . STOPOVER OR ON DIRECT SINGLE PLANE SERVICE
131N . BETWEEN THE SOUTHWEST PACIFIC AND EUROPE.

I agree with Darren that the routing is not allowed. Others have interpreted this rule in 2 ways, depending on where you put the non-existent comma

2 PERMITTED IN ASIA WHEN 1 IS A
TRANSIT WITHOUT STOPOVER
OR
ON DIRECT SINGLE PLANE SERVICE BETWEEN THE SOUTHWEST PACIFIC AND EUROPE.

2 PERMITTED IN ASIA WHEN 1 IS A
TRANSIT WITHOUT STOPOVER OR ON DIRECT SINGLE PLANE SERVICE
BETWEEN THE SOUTHWEST PACIFIC AND EUROPE.

I never even thought of option 1 until I read it here. It never hurts to ask, I guess. If you do manage to get it ticketed, I see what you mean about A class availability on the nonstop HKG-JFK. However, the 1-stop (the one that stops in Vancouver), which leaves a few hours later, seems to have decent availability. You can ticket that one, and use it as a backup. Or you can change it to the nonstop at any time. They seem to make it available close to departure, and there would be no fee for the change.

He also said that his outbound would be MCO-LAX-LHR-ATH-LHR-DXB-LHR, so I took the "SWP last" comment to mean they would go NA > Europe > Asia > SWP > NA. Given the rules, (and notwithstanding the history of the debate) then the HKG-JFK flight would seem to be out. I was thinking the CX YVR-JFK flight could be an acceptable subsititute, given QF's new service to YVR (albeit incompatible with beginning MCO-LAX.) Of course, if it can be ticketed, then it's possible.

Just be aware that CX YVR-JFK in F is not the same service as JFK-YVR. It is a trimmed-down service, not CX at its finest; so if looking for the F experience you have to fly JFK-YVR and not YVR-JFK (or pick a different route).

I hate to quibble about the purchased segments rules, but I've spent a bit of time with several airlines discussing this, so unless it has changed recently, the purchased segments have exactly the same restrictions as the "free" segments and cannot be used to circumvent the LHR routing restrictions. If you really want to go to ATH and DXB, then ATH has to be on IB or AY and not BA.

CX has a particular good F service HKG-NRT (because it has to be much better than JL on this route to attract any Japanese F business). Makes a very nice short flight (much better than YVR-JFK for example). The kaiseki meals have been cut back and are not so lavish as they used to be, but still well done (and probably have a catering cost of USD 100 which is quite a bit for a short flight).

This has been asserted before, but never with any evidence. I have compared photos, menus and personal recollections from 2001 and 2005 and I can find no significant difference (beyond the normal variation that one gets flight to flight depending on the competence and familiarity of the serving crew with the meal).

Complicating matters is a significant seasonal variation in traditional kaiseki with the winter menu being quite austere compared to the other 3 seasons. In winter you get things like 3 grains of rice precisely positioned in the middle of a dead leaf of just the right colour. I have no info about CX's catering operation, just my personal recollection and I recall one lavish kaiseki meal (and another lavish lobster thermador, also on NRT-HKG, which put SQ's "book the cook" lobster thermidor to shame). In any case HKG-NRT-HKG has nicer food than TPE-NRT on CX F, for example.

I didn't photograph it but flew my first NRT-HKG in the winter of 2002 and was astonished by the kaiseki meal. It was easily the equal of something I'd have at a fine restaurant. Fast forward to this past summer, 2005 (and finally being able to time things to use CX via HKG vs. straight out of NRT) and quality had noticably fallen off. The attention to detail and presentation were still there, mind you. However, what was on offer (I wish I still had the menu) and the preparation simply didn't match up. Mind you it's still excellent and is still the best in-flight meal I've seen but it's not as good as it was... not at all. Of course, that's a sample set of two but IMO reflects a worldwide trend. Everything's cyclical, and I believe we saw the peak of service and quality for this cycle between 2000 and 2002.

Follow Up
 

Just as a follow up to my original post, I have booked two AONE4 as follows:

MCO-LAX-LHR-ZRH-LHR-DXB-LHR-/HKG/-SYD-CNS-/SYD/-AKL-SYD-HKG-NRT-HKG-SIN-HKG-LAX-MCO.

Thanks to all those whom commented in this thread.

UserMark and Darren, I have an eVIP in escrow for each of you.

Thanks, appreciate the gesture. That is very kind of you.

You say "booked" but not "ticketed". The routing is actually invalid because you have two transcons. So it might be kicked out at the fare stage. You need to connect on either the outbound or return or go though JFK on the return.

In other words...

mco-dfw-lax....lax-mco
or
mco-lax...lax-dfw-mco
or
mco-lax....hkg-jfk-mco

Corrected
 

Darren, you are correct. I have changed the return LAX-DFW-MCO.

Thanks

Instead of a LHR-DXB loop, why not LHR-MCT? MCT seems much more interesting to me than DXB (unless your into glass and steel). You also get a few more miles.

Depends on what your after in the end.

Both will be incredibly HOT in the middle of summer.

Making DXB the better choice as it is easy to stay in air conditioning there. The heat is astonishing and really affects activities. Does make for some very cheap hotel rooms, though, particularly at the high end.

True, but there are much more interesting sights in MCT. As I said, it really depends on what you want out of a trip. If you just want a beach and nice hotel, go to DXB. If you want interesting places to visit and varied landscapes etc, MCT is better.

So... if the OP is taking his wife, I would go to MCT, if I were just going to do an MR, DXB is better due to more flights etc.