AONE4 Routing Problem
 

Hi,

I proposed the following routing:

x denotes a connection (i.e. max 23hrs 59min stay)

MRU-xLHR-LAX-JFK-SJU-DFW-SEA-xDFW-JFK-HKG-BOM-xHKG-SIN-xHKG-LHR-AGP-LHR-MCT-LHR-MRU

BA in Mauritius says:


Sorry for the delay in replying to your email..

Regarding the backtracking rules in USA,the routing you are proposing is fine up to SEA,it would not be possible to return to DFW and then to NYC..as it would be a routing from west to east and then to west coast again.., unless you change the routing to LON NYC SJU DFW SEA LAX then HKG and the rest...
under the "flight application "paragraph it is stated that backtracking is not permitted within continental US....
If you want to go to NYC twice it would have to be on a seperate ticket....
Now ,when you return to LON after HKG you would have to go through LON as no-stop to go to AGP and MCT.. as you would be doing a stopover in LON before returning to MRU..

So as a summary, the proposed routing would be slightly different as below:

MRU LONX/ NYC SJU DFW SEA LAX HKG BOM HKGX/ SIN HKGX/ LONX/ AGP LONX/ MCT LON MRU

Hoping that my reply will sound correct


Is no backtracking at all permitted in the continental U.S. ?

The OWE validator says my routing in the U.S. is fine with xLHR-LAX-JFK-SJU-DFW-SEA-xDFW-JFK-HKG


Any thoughts are most welcome.

Your proposed route is fine for an xONEx fare; BA MRU office is confusing the fare rules with some other products. It may be easier to live with what they propose, or to pay the re-issue fee later to change it, than to convince them that you know the rules better than they do.

Thanks for your reply. I thought so as well.
Best regards,
Sebastian

I'm looking at this slightly in haste, but my understanding is that the exception for two entries into Europe is only in conjunction with Ghana, Nigeria and Kenya. I don't see an exception for Mauritius. You are entering Europe twice - can you justify this being allowed?

If not then I don't think it is actually possible to start and end an xONEn in Mauritius - you would have to end it somewhere else in Africa and enter/exit from/to Asia or Australia.

The US bit is fine though.

According to the nice BA Lady in MRU having both MRU-xLHR-LAX and on the way back LHR-MRU is fine, since there is no other nonstop service (e.g. from Asia) to MRU.

She only complains about the continental U.S. segments.

Well she is equally wrong about that as she is about the US routing. It would get thrown out by BA ticketing.

If it doesn't there are a whole heap of similar routings which lots of us would love to try...

Substituted DUS for AGP, this is the routing I desire to fly:

MRU-xLHR-LAX-JFK-SJU-DFW-SEA-xDFW-JFK-HKG-BOM-xHKG-SIN-xHKG-xLHR-DUS-xLHR-MCT-LHR-MRU

Only one stopover in Europe is permitted, I have that at the end. Starting and ending xONEx tickets in MRU is possible.


Here is my reasoning copied from my e-mail:

Routing in the U.S.:
Please check the attached Excel Document. It should contain the same
rules you have, of course not in the Starfiles or whatever format. But
the content reflects the valid AONE3/4/5/6 Rules.

"flight application "paragraph states that backtracking is not
permitted between Hawaii and the continental US.


E. Travel must be in a continuous forward direction between continents
TC1-TC2-TC3.
Backtracking within a continent is permitted, except as follows:
- Backtracking between Hawaii and the continental US/Canada is not
permitted



Thus only Backtracking between Hawaii and and continental U.S. or
Canada is NOT permitted.

P. Within the US/Canada - only one NONSTOP or Single plane service
transcontinental flight permitted.
A transcontinental flight is defined as travel between a city in
Column A and a city in Column B.

Column A includes: Baltimore, Boston, Ft Lauderdale, Hartford, Miami,
Newark, New York, Orlando, Philadelphia, San Juan, Toronto, Washington

Column B: Las Vegas, Los Angeles, Oakland, Portland, San Jose, San
Francisco, Seattle, Vancouver, Long Beach, Orange County


There is only one flight in my routing with a NONSTOP service between
two of the above cities, namely LAX-JFK. The other segments, including
backtracking are fine, also according to my travel agent in DUS who
issued many Oneworld Explorer Tickets. Please check the rules again.

Well, she works for BA and even called BA in London to check about entering Europe twice.

"Only one stopover in Europe is allowed"? What? Says who?

The only restriction on stopovers in a OneworldExplorer is in the continent of origin (Africa in your case) in which you are restricted to two.

You are wasting a lot of time in conversation with someone who does not know the rules. Moreover, you say (wrongly) that you can only have one stopover in Europe and then show an itinerary with two (DUS and MCT) - you clearly haven't come close to understanding the rules. Can I suggest you talk to someone competent (such as BA's US RTW desk). The number of people working for the OneWorld airlines who do not understand OWE rules FAR exceeds the number who do.

I repeat that I have no problem with your routing within the US, so you don't need to justify that at length.

Sorry, you did not get me correctly on the stopovers in Europe. I forgot the "s" for plural.

She stated, that - since I enter Europe twice - once it has to be a connection/transit thru Europe, and only once I can make my three stopovers in Europe.

Actually I intend to make three stopovers (in DUS, MCT and LHR) at the end of the routing in Europe:
xHKG-xLHR-DUS-xLHR-MCT-LHR-MRU

Well good luck then - please report back when you have got it ticketed. I haven't really got much more to add; I've done about 15 of these OneWorld Explorers (albeit none through Africa) and I'm pretty sure I understand this aspect of the rules.

They say explicitly:

There is no exception for Mauritius. Your routing is not valid. There is no room for ambiguity on this.

But if you can get it ticketed then you can fly it - but make sure you don't ever have to get it reissued en route otherwise it is almost certain that the reissuing agent would reject the whole ticket.

That's why I want to get it right the first time. Thanks for your input.

There's no way you're gonna make it through BA ticketing...they will stop it at fare calculations the latest...I'm 99,9999% sure of that.

If I were you, I'd plan an alternative route to go for, as christep already mentioned, no point having a conversation with such an incompetent agent...

OWE rules are complex, and they are not often encountered by many agents. There are some locations where the staff are very familiar with the rules and thus you can book in this way. In other locations, the staff may see very few OWE's each year.

I'd be hestitant to call an agent incompetent simply because they don't fully understand the finer nuances of a OWE ticket.

So, one approach often mentioned is to get the ticket set up by the RTW desk of the airline, and then actually issued by the local agent. That way you have the expertise of staff dealing all the time with OWE tickets getting the thing into the system, and can then deal with the local agent for the handover of $ part.

Couldn't agree more with you. I also see no point trying to book / build the ITN with just "any agent" out there. They are good in printing out the stack of tickets and collecting your $$$...this is the reason why many airlines (like BA, which is in question here) have dedicated RTW desks, they do not have to have the top knowledge about these (still somewhat niche) products throughout the large organisations.

Thanks again for all your suggestions. Of course I have a alternate route returning HKG-JNB-CPT and ending there.

What are the contact details of BA's RTW desk in London or the U.S. (e-mail and phone number) ?

Check you PMs. BA also has very good contact details @ ba.com.

Thru BA.com I found the Lady in MRU. She is kind, but you all are right, that I am better off sticking to experts.

Thanks for the PM.

Hey Guys, I came across the same problem.
I booked a Done4 ex MRU and went via CX HKG-JNB to end my itin, But BA MRU said tha tI would have to end in MRU, and MRU-LHR-xxx-xxx-xxx-LHR-MRU is allowed. I told her how is this possible since the rules specifically state that it is not. She said the rules are different in each country of origin and she send it to pricing priced it up and my itin is reserved.
I however called BA RTW US and they were actually apalled, and clearly stated that it was wrong.
I told her I wanted to confirm with BA RTW US before and she told me the BA RTW Agent in MRU is clearly absurd. Anyhow, she put me on hold to speak to a superviser. She came back and told me it was actually possible, and that the rule are different for MRU since LHR is the only gateway..
Dunno guys, but i'm keeping my fingers crossed

another thing...
I was quoted taxes of 35,205 MUR, which is about 1,143 USD.
Isn't that a bit high??
I did a Done4 ex ist, this year and taxes were only $300 usd.
I'm making the same stopovers in US, and the only difference re the two intl stopover..
Does this sound right to you guys?

If they ticket it you're good to go. Just watch out for bad news if you go through a reissue.
It sounds like BA fuel surcharges and LHR t/o fees are whacking you big time.

BA fuel surcharges are around $44-$60 per long-haul segment and UK air pax duty is GBP 10 and GBP 40 per Domestic/EU and other destination respectively. I don't think that this could account for a difference of some 800 USD.

But QF is sticking on surcharges of AUD25 to AUG80 per sector; CX is charging +/-USD50, LA USD25-40, so a D/AONE4+ might have - what - 15 segments on surcharging airlines? Plus landing fees, war charges, etc. - it could certainly add several hundred dollars to the bottom line. (Also noted that fuel charges are added by "sector" - not "segment." Don't know if that makes any difference in this case but I suppose it could.)

Having also done a DONE4 ex-IST last year I would also have to question the US$300 figure. Ours were more like $500-$600.

Wow, yeah my taxes were definitely around the 300 range ex ist.
I just send a request to MRU and they said they repriced, to avoid duplicating some taxes, and now it came to about 500-600 usd, which i'm ok with. $1100 def seemed way too high for me.

Good show challenging the surcharges and getting them reduced. Too bad there's not an on-line resource equivalent to the tax tables the rate desks have access to. It would be nice to know with moderate certainty when a tax calc is significantly off base.

On the routing, it's always attractive to take "yes" for an answer, but I'd second the comment that one should be very cautious if there's any chance of wanting a reissue after commencing travel. There are plenty of folks even at rtw/rate desks that have important gaps in their personal knowledge of xONEx rules. If you're right and are confident, you can generally appeal past the wrong-headed agent, but taking advantage of an incorrect "yes" leaves no recourse except perhaps begging on bended knee.