Involuntary Downgrade
 

My wife and I have just started our DONE5 ex-CAI. We flew to Madrid earlier this week, made our way to London on our own, and checked in this evening for our flight the DXB. To our horrors, we have been downgraded to World Traveller Plus. :mad: We were told the flight has been oversold in Business Class by 5 seats. :(

Late last week, when I checked my reservation on AA.com, the seats were showing as assigned as 11A and 11B. :confused:

My concerns are twofold:

1 - What comfort do I have, if any, that all of the our other flights which are "confirmed" as business class on AA.com will end up being World Traveller Plus, or even worse, Economy? Is there any way that we can guarantee that once we are assigned seats in J on AA.com that we keep those seats for the flight?

2 - The check-in agent suggested that I speak to the Duty Manager in the lounge (at least we were still granted access to the Terraces Lounge) and if the business class seats do not materialize and the involuntary downgrades occur, the Duty Manager would speak to me about compensation. What compensation should we each expect?

Many thanks,

BdaDiver

My understanding is that you should get the difference between full fare business and full fare WTP for that segment as compensation. But this should have been offered at check-in - certainly that is how high class airlines like CX do things.

I am absolutely speechless. I just don't know what to say that could make any sense, or be of any help at this moment, except tell you that I feel for you and your wife, and hope BA will end up doing the right thing by you.

Edited to add: just ckecked availability with EF...

F0 A0 J0 C0 D0 I0 W0 T0 Y0 B0 H0 K0 M0 R0 V0 N0 L0 S0 Q0 O0

I have been told that it's not uncommon on that route and it's happened twice to me (although it was an "almost"). I have been told that it's for two reasons. First, there are a lot of sheiks and other high-level people in the UAE and UK travel the route and they will usually get priority. Second, I am told there are a lot of full-fares on that route, and therefore there are a lot of cancellations and shell reservations. Consequently, they oversell the plane significantly higher than on most routes. It's just the luck or lack of luck of the draw. But, as I said, I had two close calls. Both were DXB-LHR. The first was resolved ahead of time, but the second was resolved at the gate. The GA had reserved a spot in the lower class for me and said unequivocally that I would receive compensation, though he didn't say how much. Like christep said, others have said they have received cash for the fare difference and that it's calculated as the difference between J and W on the sector. My guess would be about $500 or so.

Does it matter that the ticket was a DONE in calculating the compensation? $500 would seem generous to me.

I mean if they downgraded someone on LHR-JFK from J to WTP on a DONE, I can't imagine BA would offer the difference in published one-way full fare.

In case it is of some help:

BA W One-Way 2370.00 (USD)
BA J One-Way 3074.00 (USD)

Do you now have to write them a letter to beg for compensation, or is an offer fortcoming automatically??

8:20 local time and nothing as of yet. The check-in agent was the one who mentioned the compensation, but he deferred to the duty manager in the Terraces Lounge to settle it. Hopefully the J seats will clear before the flight is closed, but with J overseld by 5, I am not holding my breath.

Can someone confirm for sure what the compensation would be? Am I out of line asking for $US700/ticket, given the figures that Viajero quoted? Also, am I out of line asking for cash rather than an MCO?

Secondly, can someone speak to the other question that I asked? I want to try to insure that this doesn't happen again. This is the 2nd leg of a 20 leg journey, and if we have to deal with this a few more times, I'll go nuts by the end of it.

Thanks to everyone for comments given so far. I will try to post again before departure, but if I don't, I will definitely update my situation tomorrow morning.

Cheers,

BdaDiver

I have been told, and people have reported, that the ticket is treated like any ticket and that they treat the downgraded tickets as if they are F->J, J->Y/W, and W->Y, if that makes any sense. I am sure it's just for simplicity sake since anything else would be a nightmare.

There's not much you can do to avoid oversold flights - nearly all airlines do it (perhaps not in first class). Best you can do is avoid specific flights that oversell (eg AKL-SIN daytime flight is more likely to be oversold than the redeye), and have status with the operating airline (less likely to be downgraded - they'll pick other pax first).

The seats came through! :) 11A & 11B! :cool:

Thanks for the information from everyone. The information that you have provided to me tonight will help us along the way on our trip.

Later.....


BdaDiver

^^^ Enjoy your flights, BdaDiver!

If there were no D seats when the booking was attempted the passenger has the choice of picking a different day or a lower class, with no expectation of compensation. Why does this change after a reservation has been made?

I would guess that many xONEx reservations are made well in advance while there may be plenty of D. Also, days of travel may vary from originally planned due to the nonavailability for D on a certain day.

There is also the issue of auxillary components to a trip such as paid transfers, accomodation etc.. These are generally made once the flights are booked and it is not always that simple to just rebook the flights to other times.

You answered your own question. The pax has a choice to downgrade in your first scenario but is deprived of that choice in the second. In a perfect world, airlines would not oversell because they would always know how many seats they have and every pax who has a reservation would show up. Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way in reality so the airlines have a choice. They can either sell the exact number of seats they have and lose revenue from seats flying empty or they can do what they do and oversell and deal with the consequences. They know the consequences of downgrading someone and accept the responsibility for when that happens. But in the end, if they can raise yields by more than they pay out then it's worth it to them. In other words, if I can gain $10,000 by overbooking instead of selling to availability, but have to pay $2000 in compensation for bumps, the airline is $8000 ahead in the game. That $2000 goes to the pax that are/were in the OPs situation.

Here's maybe another way to look at it. One thing to consider is that a flight is an expiring product. Once that flight is over, there is never another like it. The fact that you can purchase the same product for the next day doesn't change that fact. The product, by virtue of it being the next day, is not the same product. I don't think anyone would disagree that if you bought something and it wasn't given to you that you would be owed your money back. Now choose a unique and expiring product like concert tickets for Bette Midler. My ticket is the same as an airline reservation. It has who is performing (the airline), where I am sitting (the class), and the time and date of the performance. If the concert vendor at the last moment changes the singer from Bette Midler to Bette Midler's cousin, Linda Midler, then obviously the ticket holder is receiving a different product than what is required to be provided according to the terms of the ticket. When calculating compensation, it is calculated using the fair market value and not what someone specifically paid for their ticket. If the fair market value of seeing Bette Midler is $100, and the fair market value of seeing Linda Midler is $10, the ticket holder is due $90 irrespective of the fact that the ticketholder drove a hard bargain and bought the ticket for $50.

So, in this case, the OP bought a ticket to see Bette (J class) but only saw Linda (W class) then the compensation due is the fair market value of those tickets which should be calculated according to full fare prices.

All of this changes if the OP has a ticket to see "a female singer" (showing up with an open ticket but no reservation) or if the OP came to see Linda (W class), but she was substituted for Bette (J class), and the OP didn't leave (op-up). It also changes if the OP accepts seeing Linda and receiving an additional ticket for Celine Dion in exchange for seeing Bette (voluntary downgrade).

I am sorry if that's confusing but I work better with analogies. But the general idea is that, when you make a reservation, you have a contractual right to a product according to the terms of the reservation (specifically date, class, and carrier) and a change in that product means that the airline owes some compensation. Before the reservation is made, you have no contractual rights and therefore the airline owes you nothing. This is relatively unchanged by what people mistakenly refer to as the "contract of carriage". What they are referring to are generally (and correctly) referred to as the conditions of carriage and give both the pax and the airline certain rights which do not include the ability to downgrade without compensation. The downgrade provision is there to protect the airlines when they do practice overbooking and something goes wrong. If you have 10 seats and 11 pax, all with tickets, what happens? The airline, through the conditions of carriage, have the right to downgrade one of them. You can't fly with two people in the same seat (though it feels like it when in coach) and not having the condition would force airlines to abandon overbooking. Although it stinks if you are one of those getting turked, in the end it lowers costs for all ticket holders since it means that it's more likely that the airplanes are flying full.