[B]Denied access to EI lounge[/B]
 

In May and June, Mrs. Gemac and I flew a Oneworld award ticket in Business Class, paid for with 80,000 AA miles per ticket. One segment was LHR-SNN on EI. We had lounge access for all international flights except for this one segment. When we went to the EI lounge, we were told that it didn't matter what kind of ticket we had, the only way to enter their lounge was to have one of about 30 different lounge memberships.

I have the following questions:

1. The LHR-SNN segment on EI was flown in coach, as EI had only coach class on that flight, and I believe I was told, on all other flights on that route. Does EI have any Business Class at all out of LHR? If not, perhaps that is their reasoning for denying access to their lounge.

2. My understanding is that I was flying on a Business Class ticket. For reasons of my own convenience, I elected to park my Business Class fanny in a coach seat for this segment, but it was still a business class ticket. I received no reduction in the miles required to purchase the ticket for the fact that this segment was flown in coach. Am I incorrect?

3. Was I wrong to expect lounge access? We received EI lounge access on our SNN-BOS segment, and I was singularly unimpressed with that lounge, so perhaps I didn't miss much, but it was an irritation, as we had almost two hours to kill in LHR.

4. If you think I have a complaint, should I direct that complaint to AA (where I bought the tickets with miles) or to EI?

I would appreciate your thoughts.

1. I don't think so, but someone who flies them more could tell for sure. I thought EI discontinued all J to London and is basically operating like an LCC.

2. You look at the segment and not the ticket. Whether you chose the coach flight is immaterial. If you are flying in coach, irrespective of the reason, you're treated as if you're flying in coach. In that case, status would have gotten you in, assuming that the SNN lounge is operated by EI, or (as you put it) one of thirty different types of membership. It's very common, by the way, and not limited to just this type of ticket.

3. Yes, unfortunately you were wrong unless you had sapphire or emerald status on one of the Oneworld carriers. You said you used AA miles so that would be either Platinum or Exec Plat.

4. See #3. There is no one to explain to because they were in the right on this one.

I empathize with you, but they followed the rules. They could have bent them if they chose to, but that is purely at thier discretion which they chose not to exercise. If you have status then you have a legit complaint. Frankly, though, you will not be compensated. They will note it and maybe speak with someone about how to enforce the rules, but in the end that's probably about all they will do.

Put in simple English, the SNN lounge is a Gold Circle lounge, not a business lounge. Same thing in Paris CDG. Unfortunately, you were not within your rights. However, given that you were on a Business coded ticket (J or C etc.) , I think it was a poor decisio to deny you entry.

My original post was not as clear as it should have been. We were not denied access at SNN. We were denied access at LHR. We were let into the lounge at SNN. It was pretty unimpressive for a lounge.

Does EI not operate any Business Class lounges?

I have always gotten access to the EI lounge in LHR - was actually denied access at the BA lounge once and told that I could only use the EI lounge. However, I am PLT, so maybe that's why.

You didn't miss much. It is a windowless room with uncomfortable chairs, no restrooms (you have to go out into the terminal and do your business with the common folk) or decent food. The only saving grace was the bar. I'll be back soon and not looking forward to it. I am hoping to beg my way into the BA lounge as we have nearly 4 hours there! Or head back to T3 to the AA lounge.

EI lounges are rather poor at the best of times. There are only a few routes left that offer J service, and even that is a discounted J (competing on a fare that is roughly half of AA/BA). The J lounges exist at most of the airports which still operate J flights, e.g. DUB, BOS, JFK. The prefered solution at LHR is to use the BA J lounge in T1 which is much nicer than the EI lounge, you can do that if you are OW Sapphire but EI does not pay for lounge access at LHR for anyone based on the ticket. This changed circa April 2005 when EI became a mostly LCC (Ryanair being based in DUB had something to do with it).

number_6 and GoldCircle have indicated that EI makes a distinction between lounges for their elites and lounges for their J passengers. The EI website says:

"Gold Circle Club Members have access to Airport Lounges at most airports served by Aer Lingus. Premier Class passengers will be invited to use these Lounges where available.

To avail of the Gold Circle Lounge you must present a valid Gold Circle Club card along with your boarding card. Premier Class passengers should present your Business Class boarding card."

The website seems to me to say that Premier Class (J) passengers can always get access to any EI lounge.

Irrelevant to your problem, as you were not a J passenger at LHR. Downgrades suck, but you lose any residual rights when you take them. If you don't like this system, fly enough to earn FF status and get lounge access based on that (which is much easier and more predictable). It's rather trivial to earn J lounge access by becoming OW Sapphire.

Just would echo what was said about the LHR EI lounge, it stinks you were denied but honestly you missed absolutely nothing. I went there a couple years ago doing a ORD-LHR-DUB connection (Exec Plat on AA, was nice, they bumped me to F for the flight) and was suitably amused by the huge number of uncomfy seats, lack of any technology, assistance by staff, or anything resembling food - and, as was said, the only thing impressive was the bar with the upside-down 1.5L bottles of some serious hard stuff with taps waiting to be opened. Given it was 7 in the morning I passed.

The EI lounge attendant at LHR disagreed with you. He conceded that I was on a J itinerary, but said that that was irrelevant, as no business class passengers were admitted based solely on ticket.

The EI website says the exact opposite, that business class passengers are admitted to all lounges.

Seems like one or the other can't be correct.

You were not a business class passenger - you were an economy class passenger. The lounge agent was entirely correct, and was consistent with the website: you could not present a Premier (Business) class boarding pass and therefore you were denied entry.

Christep is saying the same thing I did in #2 in the second post. Look at the segment, not the ticket. The lounge access is governed by the class of service of the particular segment you are flying and not by the any other parts of the ticket. If you fly in coach, you will get coach benefits. Coach benefits do not provide for lounge access.

I'm not sure I agree. Ususally award tickets are booked entirely in one class - in this case some form of business - whatever the code AA uses for this - with the LHR-DUB segment being provided with one class service. I'd be curious to know what the fare code on the particular segment was - I assume it was a paper ticket, no? I'll wager it had a business fare basis.

As to the fact that the website and staff are contradicting each other... well, we are talking about airlines... :rolleyes:

The fare basis is immaterial for anything other than to, first, establish your fare, and second, to state the rules the pax is bound by. Lounge access is based on the COS of the flight and not the fare basis of the ticket, just like miles are based on the COS of the flight and not the fare basis of the ticket. If I have a first class fare basis, and fly coach on a one-class plane, I will get coach miles irrespective of the fact that my fare basis is F or A or whatever. Same with lounge access. If I fly to Hong Kong in first, stay a few days, then fly to Singapore in business, then I will only get access to the business class lounge even though the fare basis of my entire ticket is F. If I fly coach, I people watch with the masses.

Just to add, this is why pax that upgrade will get lounge access. The fare basis on an upgraded ticket is still the original fare basis. If you buy a Y ticket and upgrade to business class, your fare basis remains as Y. Your *booking code* is what changes to U or whatever the individual airline uses. That's the code that is used to determine perks like baggage, lounge access, fast pass, etc.

IMO, all the reasons given in this thread for -not- granting lounge access to the OP in LHR are correct, if it were not for a little known clause in the oneworld rules which clearly suggest the opposite:

"...Customers flying in Economy Class on the domestic or intra-European segment to connect to or from a oneworld longhaul First or Business Class flight can also use the lounge applicable to the class in which they are travelling on the longhaul segment."

The full text can be read on the OW Electronic Timetable, by clicking on "Information -> Lounge Access" from the Main Menu.

If it was a connection, then that is absolutely correct. The OP didn't indicate that it was a connection, though. However, the OP also didn't indicate that it wasn't a connection so maybe it was.

It was not a connection in my case, as there was a stopover. I did ask the lounge attendant, however, what the case would be if it were a connection. He stated that there would be no admission in that case, either, as EI's iron-clad rule was that "you have to have one of these (gesturing at picture of about 30 different cards) cards to be admitted".

I am, as stated earlier, curious and slightly irritated, rather than enraged and adamant. EI doesn't seem to know what their policy is, far from a rare occurance when dealling with airlines. They also don't seem to feel a need to comply with Oneworld rules, which suggests that they may be exiting Oneworld soon.

I paid extra for a "deluxe" package, which included preferential seating, food, and drink in the air and preferential check-in, security clearance, and lounge access on the ground, all clearly "where available". I had never been downgraded before. If some of these amenities were unavailable at certain locations or on certain flights, I can clearly understand that those amenities would not be provided. It seemed like a gratuitous slap in the face, however, to be told that because some of the amenities that I had purchased were unavailable, those that were available would not be provided (and there would be no pro-rata refund). I know of no other industry where this is the case. For example, consider a hypothetical situation where a company offers two tour packages with the same itinerary. You have your choice of business class flight, superior hotel accomodations, and deluxe meals, or coach flight, standard hotel accomodations, and standard meals. If, on one segment, the business class flight was not available, I would still expect the superior hotel accomodations and deluxe meals. To be told that I would have to accept the standard hotel and meals when deluxe were available, merely because the business class flight was unavailable, would seem like a poke in the eye. I guess that here I'm not discussing the way the world is, but the way it should be. Too many carriers are living in the past, where governments assured them of a profit and passengers were a nuisance to be tolerated, and I have found that to be even more the case in Europe than in America. I don't plan to spend the rest of my life tilting at this particular windmill. :)

In that case we are back where we started: you have no basis for a complaint and no oneworld rule has been broken.

And speaking of "it ain't fair" issues, spare a thought for some people here, that buy AONEs and lots of times end up with their First Class fanny in J or even Y. Now, that hurts. :)

Well, I DO feel for the AONEs. And no Oneworld rule has been broken in my case, although EI clearly stated that they would break the Oneworld rule, given the opportunity. Given the volume of passengers that they handle, I would assume that they break it regularly.

I have done some selling in my career, and found it pretty hard, time consuming, and expensive to acquire a customer. Once I got one, I tried to give them little "extras" periodically, things that might be valuable to them but not cost my company very much to provide. I am always surprised when an organization tries to seize every opportunity to rankle their customers.

Thanks very much to all who took the time and trouble to respond. I think I understand the situation much better now. ^

While I agree with Darren's sentiments generally, I have to argue with this:
That has never been my experience - I regularly fly on UAX services connecting from longhaul biz and always get my double miles, as the fare basis on the UAX segment is biz also. It may vary from carrier to carrier, and from FFP to FFP, but I've never come across this.