LONE4 - OZ leg
 

Hi all,

I've been a lurker on the Qantas and OW fora for quite some time now, and since I'm planning a LONE4 trip soon, I've decided to finally register, and create my first post! :)

I plan on starting my LONE4 trip in MEL (I'll post the complete itinerary later), and have 16 segments going around the world. My final 4 segments are all in Australia -
SYD-DRW
DRW-ADL
ADL-PER
PER-MEL

My question is - are these segments valid? Here's the rule covering the Australian segments -
J)WITHIN AUSTRALIA - ONLY O N E NONSTOP/SINGLE
PLANE SERVICE IS PERMITTED BETWEEN THE FOLLOWING
POINTS:
BNE/CNS/SYD-PER;
MEL/SYD-DRW.
EXCEPTION: NO RESTRICTION BETWEEN SYD-PER FOR
PASSENGERS ORIGINATIING IN PER WHEN IN
CONJUNCTION
WITH TRAVEL TO/FROM AFRICA.

My interpretation of the rules is that my segments are valid, however, the consultant at travel.com.au doesn't think so. She thinks that from Perth, I can only go to BNE, CRN or SYD!

The consultant at travel.com.au is wrong unfortunately - the limitation referred to in the rules is to stop you doing (for instance) SYD-PER-BNE - but it would be perfectly fine to do SYD-PER-MEL - any long distance segments that aren't explicitly mentioned as being limited in the above rule is permitted (within the bounds of segment limitations etc).

I presume some of these stops in Oz are just transfers, and not stop-overs? ... ie, don't forget only 2 stopovers allowed in continent of origin. Potentially your trip has 4, not counting NZ or elsewhere in SWP. Enjoy the trip! :)

That's how I understood the rule too - to prevent you from doing a combination of long distance segments that's explicitly mentioned in the rule, otherwise it should be ok. Thanks, GibSpmuh.

Hi desanmiguel,

Yes, I've got 2 stopovers in OZ, when I come back to Sydney from HKG, that will be the first stopover, the next legs are transit -

SYD-DRW - transit
DRW-ADL - transit
ADL-PER - 2nd stopover
PER-MEL - last leg.

BTW, this is my planned itinerary. I'll be departing MEL late November, and shall be back in Sydney by mid-Jan. I'll then do the Australian leg of my trip prob in Feb. For the start of the trip, since I'm Sydney-based, I'll just take a flight down to MEL, and it's easy to transfer in MEL since it's just one terminal, basically.

MEL-HKG
HKG-SIN
SIN-HEL
HEL-LHR
ORY-MAD
MAD-BCN
BCN-ORY
LHR-SFO
SFO-JFK
JFK-TPA
TPA-ORD
ORD-BOS
BOS-DCA
DCA-LGA
JFK-HKG
HKG-SYD
SYD-DRW
DRW-ADL
ADL-PER
PER-SYD

I also plan on doing the Platinum Challenge with AA - the JFK-HKG leg will be the one that'll take me over the 10,000 point mark, and it'll give me 100% bonus on the points for that leg too! :)

More miles in America
 

Depending on what your priorities are, you could optimize the routing of your American segments to gain more miles. For instance, the Florida to NYC market is one of the most competitive in the US with a huge number of daily flights, so you could probably get a separate cheap TPA-NYC ticket (or go via MCO if you have the flexibility) and use the freed segment instead for a mileage run.

If you're only using ORD to connect to TPA, you could fly SFO-JFK instead and get a cheap return to Florida from there. You could also consider doing NYC-WAS separately, for instance by taking the Acela train.

Thanks for the advice - I looked at my USA flights and reshuffled the flights around. I'm still going to the same cities, but changed the flights to maximise my points - now doing SFO-JFK first. Have a look at my updated itinerary above.

I see you have a well researched itinerary that almost maximises your QF SCs with some segments (eg SIN-HEL, HEL-LHR) but don't forget SFO-BOS is just over the 2700 mile cut off so you might be better off doing that then SFO-JFK.

Yes, I've done quite a bit of research by going thru the posts on this forum - and the QFF forum too. That's a good suggestion (SFO-BOS), however, I've decided to go to JFK so that I can leave all my luggage with relatives there - which means I won't have too much to carry going around the States :D

I'm actually doing the AA Platinum challenge, so I won't be getting any QF SCs with any of my American flights anyway - the good thing though is that the JFK-HKG leg is the flight that pushes me above the target 10,000 points, and that will give me 100% bonus points for that flight too! ;)

Just be aware that you may have issues with the interpretation of the Asia transit rules. You are traveling SWP-ASIA-EUROPE-NA-ASIA-SWP. I am assuming your second visit through Asia is planned as transit only. I know some people have had success in ticketing such a routing, but it depends on the interpretation of the rules.

If you were only transiting Asia the first time between SWP and EUROPE, and then visiting Asia on the return between NA and SWP, no problem. But visiting Asia between SWP and EUROPE and then transiting between NA and SWP depends on how one interprets the association of the word OR in the rules.

The rule regarding inter-continental departures states:
The intent of this rule is to only permit the second transit when traveling between SWP and EUROPE. However, if you interpret the OR as referring either:

• transit without stopover, or
• direct single plane service between SWP and Europe

then your routing is valid. However, if it is interpreted as:

• transit without stopover, or
• single plane service

between SWP and Europe

Then it is not valid. I believe the second is the intent of the rule, but we know several people have been successful in convincing the ticketing agent that the first is a valid interpretation.

I just want to make sure you are prepared in case you run into this argument when it comes time to ticket the itinerary. Have you side of the argument ready to be presented.

Hi NM,

Thanks for pointing this out, I actually had a discussion with the CSR tonight about this rule. I had to point out to him that I'm actually transiting Asia the first time between SWP and EUROPE. The return leg between NA & SWP, was meant to be transit as well. Unfortunately, all the flights were booked out, so I have to stay overnight in HKG, which is totally fine with me, and it's within the rules too. ^

Update
 

I got this e-mail from my CSR -

I'm thinking of moving the Aussie flights of my itinerary at the start of my trip (I'm waiting for the CSR to confirm that that's valid), and then do
SYD-SIN
SIN-HEL...

since coming back, I'll be staying overnight in HKG.

The first part of that reply form the CSR is total and utter rubbish. You are allowed 4 segments and 2 stopovers in SWP either at the end or the beginning of your itinerary as you wish. The restriction on "transcons" is there to stop you doing SYD-PER-SYD-PER-SYD as a mileage run.

The CSR seems to be trying to reinterpret the rule as:

WITHIN AUSTRALIA - ONLY O N E NONSTOP/SINGLE
PLANE SERVICE IS PERMITTED. THIS MAY BE BETWEEN THE FOLLOWING
POINTS:
BNE/CNS/SYD-PER;
MEL/SYD-DRW.

But there is nothing that limits this rule to tickets originating in SWP, so if her interpretation were correct then it would apply to tickets issued anywhere else in the world and people visiting Australia as part of, say, a xONE4 issued in Europe would have the same restriction, which is clearly ridiculous. (And what's more you wouldn't be allowed to visit any city except those listed!)

The OW rules are fairly precisely drafted. Unfortunately, English comprehension and logic are not compulsory requirements to be a CSR (or Industry Support rep). Curiously, I actually find that non-native speakers of English are better at this, so given a choice I would always pick the fluent non-native agent rather than the native speaker if I need to explain some specific point in the rules.

The CSR is actually on my side - it's the Qantas Industry support person that's interpreting the rule that way :td:
The CSR is now having a debate with the Qantas rep so hopefully the Qantas rep will see the light ;)