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-   -   How to make this possible and from CAI ? (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/oneworld/343101-how-make-possible-cai.html)

RTW Man Aug 4, 2004 9:30 am
How to make this possible and from CAI ?
 
I want to start my journey from CAI as price is very good. Now I need some expert advise on the following route.

CAI-LHR-HKG-(SIN-HKG-)-SYD-AKL-SYD-HKG-LHR-CAI. :confused:

I know the Circle Explorer fare, but I don't want to return via South Africa, because I want to take as many CX flights as possbile :D . I'm living in UK, so CAI is very easy for me and UK prices are high.

What would this kind of ticket cost in CAI or LON and is it possible or how to make it possible.

Thank you.

christep Aug 4, 2004 10:33 am
I don't see this fitting any of the OW Circle or RTW fares.

However, there is an ambiguity in the rules which a number of people have used to get something like this ticketed:

CAI-LHR-HKG-(SIN-HKG-)-SYD-AKL-SYD-(x)HKG-<N. America>-LHR-CAI

In this case this is a xONE4 OneWorldExplorer ticket and you can take up to a total of 20 flight segments with a maximum of 4 in any continent (6 in N America). Only two stopovers allowed in Europe.

The prices are in the sticky thread at the top of this forum. Cairo is generally only worth the effort for J or F.

Viajero Aug 4, 2004 11:25 am
And if the OW Explorer is not what you want, or can't make it work for you, then take a look at the Global Explorer fare, which is distance based, and permits you to return from HKG back to Europe, without having to go RTW.

Rules and fares:

http://www.hardlink.com/~markdu/OWFi...lExplorer.html

And here a very cool interactive tool for planning:

http://www.travelbag.co.uk/roundworld/interactiverp.asp

(wouldn't it be great to have something similar for the OWE?)

ajinlondon Aug 4, 2004 11:26 am
looks like a std lon-akl with a stop in syd fare ,
not really much to do with a rtw.

WearyBizTrvlr Aug 4, 2004 1:21 pm
Originally Posted by Viajero
(wouldn't it be great to have something similar for the OWE?)
Indeed. With all the planning and tweaking I have been doing recently, the thought had occurred to me. The problem is getting the schedules. Once you have that, putting together some sort of rudimentary program shouldn't be too hard. Both Star Alliance and oneworld use the same application for their electronic timetable, so I suppose the data files could be reverse engineered, but I'm too old for that kind of thing. :D

The Star Alliance RTW app is still in beta AFAIK, and it does get pretty confused, but at least they're working on it.

Viajero Aug 4, 2004 1:37 pm
Originally Posted by WearyBizTrvlr
Both Star Alliance and oneworld use the same application for their electronic timetable, so I suppose the data files could be reverse engineered, but I'm too old for that kind of thing. :D
I am not younger but will take a look at it, although if it is encrypted then I will probably give up and join you at the rocking chair. Looking at that interface though I would say the authors definitely encrypted the data, otherwise I can't see where else they put the two man hours it took them to develop that thing. :rolleyes:

WearyBizTrvlr Aug 4, 2004 2:14 pm
Originally Posted by Viajero
I am not younger but will take a look at it, although if it is encrypted then I will probably give up and join you at the rocking chair. Looking at that interface though I would say the authors definitely encrypted the data, otherwise I can't see where else they put the two man hours it took them to develop that thing. :rolleyes:
It does appear to be encrypted, at least based on my admittedly cursory examination of the .seg, .mbi and .mca files. I've come to the point where I don't even have a decent hex editor anymore on my travel laptop, so I haven't done any more serious poking around. It could simply be encoded rather than encrypted. I've always hated x86 assembler code, so even disassembled I could not read the app anyway...

Ah well... perhaps we should have another drink instead, while we submit the app to the Museum of Atrocious Interfaces.

RTW Man Aug 4, 2004 2:40 pm
Originally Posted by Viajero
And if the OW Explorer is not what you want, or can't make it work for you, then take a look at the Global Explorer fare, which is distance based, and permits you to return from HKG back to Europe, without having to go RTW.

Rules and fares:

http://www.hardlink.com/~markdu/OWFi...lExplorer.html

And here a very cool interactive tool for planning:

http://www.travelbag.co.uk/roundworld/interactiverp.asp

(wouldn't it be great to have something similar for the OWE?)
Can you do following route with Global Explorer fare

CAI-LHR-HKG-SYD-HKG-SYD-AKL-MEL-HKG-LHR-CAI ? I thought, you have to travel across both Pacific and Atlantic. If not the great ? And any idea how much this would cost at the moment from Cairo ?

Thank you very much.

WearyBizTrvlr Aug 4, 2004 3:03 pm
Originally Posted by RTW Man
Can you do following route with Global Explorer fare

CAI-LHR-HKG-SYD-HKG-SYD-AKL-MEL-HKG-LHR-CAI ? I thought, you have to travel across both Pacific and Atlantic. If not the great ? And any idea how much this would cost at the moment from Cairo ?
No, that's not allowed as you're hopping between Asia and South West Pacific too often. You're allowed one intercontinental flight between the two continents, and you can squeeze a second one in en route to a third continent. And as you point out, you need to cross both the Atlantic and the Pacific, so that's another problem with this itinerary.

From the rules linked to above:

117N . 7. THE SAME CITY
118N . PAIRS/SEGMENTS
119N . MAY NOT BE FLOWN MORE
120N . THAN
121N . ONCE IN THE SAME
122N . DIRECTION.
123N .
124N .
125N . 8. BACKTRACKING BETWEEN
126N . REGIONS
127N . AS DEFINED UNDER
128N . APPLICATION
129N . IS NOT
130N . PERMITTED.
131N . EXCEPTION - ASIA MAY
132N . BE
133N . PASSED THROUGH TWICE.
134N . ONE
135N . OF THE DEPARTURE/ARRIVALS
136N . IN
137N . ASIA MUST BE A
138N . TRANSIT
139N . WITHOUT STOPOVER
140N . IN
141N . CONJUNCTION WITH
142N . TRAVEL
143N . BETWEEN SWP AND EUROPE
(sorry about the formatting)

RTW Man Aug 4, 2004 4:04 pm
Originally Posted by WearyBizTrvlr
No, that's not allowed as you're hopping between Asia and South West Pacific too often. You're allowed one intercontinental flight between the two continents, and you can squeeze a second one in en route to a third continent. And as you point out, you need to cross both the Atlantic and the Pacific, so that's another problem with this itinerary.

From the rules linked to above:



(sorry about the formatting)
Sorry, I ment CAI-LHR-HKG-SIN-HKG-SYD-AKL-MEL-HKG-LHR-CAI.

christep Aug 4, 2004 6:42 pm
Originally Posted by Viajero
And if the OW Explorer is not what you want, or can't make it work for you, then take a look at the Global Explorer fare, which is distance based, and permits you to return from HKG back to Europe, without having to go RTW.
You're the second person to make this statement recently (I think it was Guy Betsy who said the same on another thread) but I don't see it. The Global Explorer also requires RTW travel. You have to cross the Pacific and the Atlantic once and only once each.

hauteboy Aug 4, 2004 11:21 pm
Originally Posted by WearyBizTrvlr
It does appear to be encrypted, at least based on my admittedly cursory examination of the .seg, .mbi and .mca files. I've come to the point where I don't even have a decent hex editor anymore on my travel laptop, so I haven't done any more serious poking around. It could simply be encoded rather than encrypted. I've always hated x86 assembler code, so even disassembled I could not read the app anyway...

Ah well... perhaps we should have another drink instead, while we submit the app to the Museum of Atrocious Interfaces.
The schedule database files are definitely encrypted, and bizzarely so. I managed to figure out (most of) the format quite some time ago, and have developed a utility to dump the schedules, with some neat features.

dump all flights from city XXX
dump all flights to city XXX
dump all flights from country XXX
dump all flights to country XXX
dump all flights > XXXX miles
dump all flights < XXXX miles
dump all domestic flights
dump all international flights
dump all flights in a region (OWE continents)
dump all flights on airline XXX
dump all flights on aircraft XXX
dump all flights on an alliance (Star/OWE/Skyteam)

these can be combined in various combinations, like:
dump all flights from LHR on 747s greater than 2000 miles

etc
Pretty basic command line utility, but a web-front end could probably be developed fairly easily. The problem with the format is all data is listed by flight segment, so only non-stop flights are displayed by my utility (no direct flights).

Now everyone will start asking for this utility :) Of course it was reverse engineered so questionable legality, and there may be issues if I released it and they might go and change the format (they have already changed it once before).

Viajero Aug 4, 2004 11:49 pm
Originally Posted by christep
You're the second person to make this statement recently (I think it was Guy Betsy who said the same on another thread) but I don't see it. The Global Explorer also requires RTW travel. You have to cross the Pacific and the Atlantic once and only once each.
Yep, my mistake, thanks for picking that up. I have no idea where I got the information, but it makes no difference: the rules are clear, you must go RTW and my previous statement was incorrect.


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