lone5 from australia looking to maximise status and or points
 

Hi,
Hope somebody on the forum isnt too sick of answering questions regarding lone5's and earning points and status.

Firstly here is the route that i am planning to complete hopefulyl everything checks out per the rules if not some assistance would be greatly appreciated.

mel-cns-drw-per-mel-nrt QF
Nrt-hkg-cts-hkg-bkk CX
bkk-lhr-dxb-lhr-hel-lhr-gig BA
Gig-scl-ppt-scl-eze-lax Lan
-ord-anc-dfw-yvr-jfk AA
jfk-syd.QF

Not sure about the scl-ppt is it in the swp or south america?

Flying in economy class, but was looking to upgrade the BA sectors to world traveller plus.

Now my next question is which frequent flyer porgram should i join to earn the most status points/credits so that i can reach a higher status. whilst earning some points but with a bigger emphasies on status credits.

I am a member of Qantas already but no status

I was thinking that AA would be the best program, but wasnt sure if any miles could be earned on CX, QF or Lan.

your replies would be very much appreicated.

I'm really no expert, but here are my thoughts. for the full rules on a LONE5, go to http://www.hardlink.com/~markdu/OWFiles/ and look under One Explorer

as i understand it you cannot go through the same port twice. so the trip through MEL will have to be changed. you could get a cheap QF flight to SYD and start the whole thing from there.

20 segments is the maximum, so some of yours will need to go.

I'm told that PPT is in the south west pacific.

a good way to get more full SCs, albeit expensive when purchases individually on the OW explorer.

no idea, others here will know. have a great trip. no doubt the planning will be as much fun as the travelling.

You are actually allowed to go through the same port more than once. But the itinerary is invalid bceause if MEL is the starting point, once the pax returns to MEL the ticket is finished.

babs if you want to visit those cities but live in MEL, I would advise starting the OWE in SYD and getting a cheap red e-deal MEL-SYD.

Also note that in your continent of origin (SWP) you are only allowed 2 stopovers - so if you want to stop in CNS, DRW, PER, and MEL you cannot do so - choose two and the rest of the stops have to be under 24 hrs (definition of a stopover).

Note here that you are allowed 6 segments in NA - so you can use up two more if trying to maximize miles - JKF-PHX-JFK perhaps? (JFK-PHX is not on the restricted transcon cities list).

Also YVR-JFK is CX not AA

AND THE CLINCHER - you have 26 segments listed babs - maximum of 20 allowed.

As noted by da.....L.
Firstly too may segments. Maximum of segments is 20 on any one xONEx.
If you tell us which places are important/most required we can try and maximize your earning potential.
Also to upgrade on the BA sectors to WT+ would set you back $600 AUD per segment.
In your situation AA would be the way to go as a Plat Challenge as you have no status with QF at present.
AAdvantage would allow you to earn miles on QF, LA, AY, BA and IB albeit with some reduced earning power in L class.

AAs flights to ANC are seasonal. Make very sure they fly when you want to travel. The AA codeshares on AS metal are not valid on a xONEx fare. If you are just doing ANC for the QF SCs and points, try BOS-SFO (2704 miles) or from JFK to the Carribean islands - some opportunities to stay in N America and go over 2700 miles.

With AA, you'd earn -
AA - 100%
LA - 100%
AY - 100%
QF - 50%
IB - 30%
BA - 25%
BA - 110% in WT+
CX - 0%

And I think you will have a problem with visiting PER and DRW and then heading to Asia via the east coast. Rule is:

82N . 7. WITHIN AUSTRALIA - 1 NONSTOP OR SINGLE PLANE
83N . FLIGHT PERMITTED BETWEEN THE FOLLOWING
84N . CITIES:
85N .
86N . BNE/CNS/SYD AND PER
87N . EXCEPTION - NO RESTRICTION BETWEEN SYD-PER FOR
88N . PASSENGERS ORIGINATING PER OR NEW ZEALAND WHEN
89N . IN CONJUNCTION WITH TRAVEL TO/FROM AFRICA
90N .
91N . MEL/SYD AND DRW

Basically once you hit DRW or PER from the east coast, you have to keep heading west/hop the QF/CX direct flights up to Asia (SIN/HKG). Keep planning and I am sure you will work out a routing that fits your plans and the rules.

Australia
You have the four sectors here. The only rules about Perth are that you cannot do the Sydney/Darwin/Cairns more than once. The Tokyo flight is longest from MEL, hitting the magic 5000 so go for it. Buy your ticket starting from somewhere else to end up in MEL. Can you get a CBR cheaply?

There are no restrictions on Trans-tasman in the LONE rules. The best mileage is with the Perth thrown in on domestic so you want to come in and out of Perth at least once. That is going to force you down the PER to CANBERRA flight (the capital...) or MEL route. Punch out of CBR to the PER then PER to BNE to CHC to MEL. At this point, go home, do your washing and start again. Not sure that I have optimised this bit but it is close. I will play more over time. [See the PPT comment about add on price and then if you want that, swap CHC for AKL as one option]

You have used 5 sectors (4 internal and one trans-conti)
CBR-PER ? (QF site down)
PER-BNE 2243
BNE-CHC 1551
CHC-MEL 1491
MEL-NRT 5059

Asia
You are trapped into the first sector being HKG so we have to accept that. There is only the TPE once a day. I do not think that you get the extra miles for this flight number so forget it. There is nothing from TPE to take advantage of anyway, except NRT, the delightful FUK, NGO, OSA, and SEL. These are all at around 1000 miles so don't bother. Straight to HKG You have a maximum of four sectors in Asia. One has been blown on the HKG so that leaves maximum 3 before trans-continental time again.

For mileage within this continent there is only one option, and if you status points on QF, the bad news is it is KHI. Having done the pointless(?!) run, you now need the single sector that will get you out with maximum mileage to Europe. SIN is about 500 more than BKK and longer to LHR. Now the strategies change depending upon which scheme you join. Your options are with CX,AY and BA at this point. That would drop you into HEL or LHR as the places you can get out of again on a long distance adventure. You will have other hubs to leave from as well with IB and EI joining the exit party.

For HEL, you have direct HKG at 4859, BKK at 4927, Osaka (I get my KIX on route 66) at 4816, your inbound NRT at 4876, PEK at 3929, SIN at 5761 (which goes via BKK anyway).

HKG direct 4859
HKG-BKK-HEL 5974
HKG-KIX-HEL 6344
HKG-NRT-HEL 6717
HKG-PEK-HEL 5183
HKG-SIN-HEL 7348

For the QFs out there, there is only one choice, via SIN as it contains the whoopie 5000 mile sector (must take my own medicine on that one soon).

If you want LHR then you have the change in DXB, BAH, India, Saudi, SIN, BKK, HKG direct, NRT and PEK. My feeling is here that you might want to ditch the change option and come in direct to save on the total of 20 coupons. Same with the mileage run to KHI. Just do NRT-HKG-BKK if you really want to go to BKK. Alternatively, if you are not on a mileage run, you might want to throw in HKG to DXB to LHR as a coupon saver which would allow you to stop in DXB. We will see...

NRT to HKG 1841
HKG to KHI 2956?
KHI to HKG 2956?
HKG to BKK 1047?
HKG to LHR 6004.
BKK to LHR 5940 (BA and QF options)
HKG to DXB to LHR 7267

OK, so now you are in HEL or LHR and you appear to want to do both anyway. Decide what the point of doing the return HEL to LHR is when you could split the HKG or is it worth doing the DXB split. Until you come back, I cannot recommend what to do about the coupons in Europe at this point. Remember, you can buy the additional coupons for use in a continent at AU 400 return at this point for Europe. Has to be a bargin for LHR to DXB return. If you get short of coupons in Europe, go low cost alternatives. If the worst comes to the worst, you could do Tampere to Stansted on Ryanair single to get you from HEL to LHR.

For coupons to South America from Europe you could go direct with BA, go direct with IB, go direct with LA or for mileage, route via the US without staying for 24 hours but this will cost 2 coupons. Where do you want to go and then we can help further. Is it GIG-EZE-SCL as the points of interest or were you SCL for PPT. Sorry but I think PPT is a no go area on the xONEx world map. The QF service has gone to codeshare hell. You cannot buy a SCL to PPT as an add on to this fare as it is trans-continental so sorry. Buy another ticket (from AKL if you wanted to do it by changing your CHC sector to AKL, from SYD or SCL) or consider the Global Explorer which I think will let you go that way.

OK, so now we have to haul you out of South America, from point unknown to the US and then to JFK. I am not the AA mileage run expert for the domestic US scene. My one concern is that you may be living in Oz and using coupons domestically that you could buy at some other point in your life. When will you get the chance to do Anchorage? Sorry, I do not know whether you do two round the worlds a month as I used to or if this is a once in a lifetime.

Hope that this was a planning start and we will help all we can.

Spotwelder
When the spots on the radar screen weld themselves together...

It sounds like the only thing you forgot to tell babs is the options for colour of panties she can wear in each continent and how that would play in terms of mileage :D

I think that's one of the most detailed analyses for another FTer I've seen....

Too bad that CX doesn't fly to PVG yet as AY has PVG-HEL flights 5x a week. I guess QF is also planning to open SYD-PVG route.

scl-ppt is considered trans continental flight..
so U cant use ppt-scl again..
and.. If u arrive Pappete, U cant use OW flight any more.
cuz PPT - SYD(or AKL) is operated by QF codeshare flight (Air tahiti Nui)

U have to buy PPT - AKL coupon with ur another expense :)

PVG options
 

Well PVG took a little bit of thinking about as I didn't recognise the code at first. I do not think that it will be a great seller on the xONEx routes as it is very similar to HKG and you have to get out of there somehow. If you do not want to use any more Asia coupons and save them for later then great. You can always "overland" (i.e. get a single ticket outside the xONEx) between HKG and PVG if you want to do more in Asia.

As for the detailed answer, well it was an interesting exercise as I am planning my own xONEx QF status run and BA status run shortly. I nearly missed the MEL-NRT bit for the QF status, BA is totally different in that if it is over 2000 miles, that is it but with QF having the 5000+ split in its programme... Now I need to print out what I wrote in that thread so I can keep it on file. I am trying to build the "mother of all xONEx files" in the next two months.

We have only got Babs half way round at the moment anyway...

Spotwelder

Sorry, can't start in Australia and go to NZ and back to Australia at the beginning of the trip. You only get one international departure and one international arrival from/to the country of origin. This is not specifically a Trans-Tasman restriction, just on of re-enterring the country of origin before you have completed your other continents.

HEL to LHR
 

Just had another read of the HEL to LHR consideration of Ryanair. They can do this sector very cheaply, if you are lucky. However, the US150, AU200 or GBP 75 for this single is better value if you start to consider the time aspect and the bus fares. The bus from Helsinki centre takes 2.5 hours and will arrive with about 1.5 hours to go. The fare will be about £10. The taxes are about £10. Therefore, the best you are going to do on this part is around £25. The bus fare from STN to LHR costs around £20 and takes about 1.5 hours with departures about every 2 hours, from memory. This gives a total of around £45.

The LHR option will cost around £85 but be much quicker. Also the STN flight lands late at night when it is notoriously difficult to get out of the airport. I have done it and taken the bus to LHR arriving at 0215. Uggh.

To clarify the PPT, you cannot use an add on xONEx coupon for this but you have to buy a totally separate ticket.

I've recently started my own thread on a LONE4, but after seeing spotwelder's comprehensive response on this thread, i thought i may as well join it with my own questions.

I too am organising a LONE5. It was to be a LONE4 but trying to find a spare L class seat on any OW flight out of SCL to australia is proving impossible. So, i'm going to add a continent and try and come back through LAX.

The cities I really want to visit are GIG, EZE, LIM, NRT, LHR, MAD. everything else is really just to maximise points and SCs.

so I'm looking at the following itinerary. any further thoughts would be much appreciated. I am currently QF PS (OW ruby) although if the AA platinum challenge is considered worth it by fellow flyertalkers, i might shift the whole thing into the AA program.

Currently, my thinking is

SYD-BNE-PER-MEL and then after a suitable break start the real trip
MEL-NRT-HKG-KHI-HKG-SIN-HEL-LHR-LED-HEL-MAD-GIG-SCL-LIM-EZE-LAX-JFK-SYD

this appears to get me 520 SC (not bad for L class) and 61,759 points (including the ruby bonus on QF, BA and AA flights and the BA and AA discount for L class). I have to do the whole thing in about 3 weeks, which is a little frustrating, but for that amount of points and SCs, it looks worth it.

can anyone see any flaws in it ?

cheers, david

If you're going to LED just for miles and SC's, then just remember that you'll have to get a visa for Russia (is it worth it?). Why not fly HEL-LHR-DXB-LHR-MAD?

actually, St Petersburg is one of the few places that i'm really keen to see (even though it will be january when i get there). and it has the benefit of reducing my use of BA flights which only earn 0.25 points for L class.

Then go for it, there's nothing like the view of the Neva on sunny winter day by -20 C. Summer or winter, it's a great place :)

You can take a boat from Helsinki to St Petersburg and avoid having to get a Russian visa (you sleep on the boat). Saves you a couple of coupons as well as being a slightly more diverting way to visit a city.

Oops, I thought that Australia owned NZ...
 

OK. Wow that makes an ex-LON ticket even worse value than it was before. You cannot go anywhere apart from out,in and domestic. That relies on you being able to find a hop out or long haul in that avoids LON. Wonder if they would notice the difference between the LON stations.

So, having decided to screw up on that rule, the route could go from AKL to HKG for the 5000 miles. However, as this is on CX, does this then affect the choice of FFP? You could circle Australia starting from MEL via PER and BNE/SYD/CNS and one sector between them before punting out to AKL.

You would then have the four Asia coupons available before escaping off elsewhere.

NM can you check this?

PS, get you a beer when I am in BNE at the start of September for catching that mistake.

Richard
If you start in ADL, instead of SYD, you will get more SC's as ADL-BNE is 1007 miles

Going to HEL in economy...
 

The lack of L class from SCL to SYD appears to be a common "thread". Just as a quick shot in the dark, the aircraft stops in AKL on the way. I would be worth checking if they carry L class on SCL to AKL. This happens on other flights that stop in other places. I do not have a booking engine with class display in front of me. Can anyone give this a shot as it would save a continent for one SWP coupon extra ...

What you could look at is the SYD start and then end in NRT which I assume is for the 5000 mile sector status points. If you were to go SYD-PER-MEL rather than SYD-BNE-PER-MEL you have used one coupon for 614 miles difference in distance and a sub 1000 mile sector. What about SYD-PER-MEL (do the washing...) and then MEL-AKL-NRT with the spare sector. This would give you the 1000+ miles status points as the 438 mile SYD BNE has been swapped for a 1642 MEL AKL. You would also swap a 5059 MEL NRT for the better AKL NRT for 5676 but this is on CX and not QF. I assume that you can do the calculations about bonuses here.

The Asia to Europe to Rio sector needs a bit of work. SIN to LHR is an option at 6765 rather than SIN to HEL at 5761 for an extra 1006 miles. I included HEL in the other routes as it made sense and I have to drop into HEL (for LED) every now and then from September. If you do not wish to visit HEL and just change for LED, then just do the LHR to LED out and back (which rather eats the two flights off LHR rule) but I would recommend the ferry option from HEL if I were you. That boat has a reputation as a party ship and would (a) coupon save and (b) LHR 2 coupon long distance save.

Assuming that you are here in Northern Hemisphere summer then you need to find the route as LHR to LED to HEL to LPA (or somewhere down there) to MAD if you want to go that way to South America. Your HEL-LHR-LED-HEL-MAD had 3x1000+ sectors and a 1-999 sector. My suggestion has a 1000+ swapped for the vital 2942 mile HEL to LPA but beware of the days of the week. There are 1085 more miles, or so in this route. If you went into HEL from NRT then you could to HEL-LCD-LHR-Cairo or TLV-MAD if you wanted as an alternative, where do you want to go? These would not get the 2700 miles status points but would get lots of miles.

If you had saved a sector, then you could route MAD or LHR to South America via North America on the less than 24 hour routine and get lots of points. Decide on your priorities in life, a day trip to a city or more points then we can help.

Right, its 0204 local time here and I am going to bed, come back and ask for more help whenever you want it.

Your beer in September in MEL if you haven't left.

Spotwelder

Yes, all LON airports are considered the same port for a xONEx fare. Arrive LGW, depart LHR in less than 24 hours and its a transit in LON, not a ground segment with stopover.

But remember the restriction is one international departure and one international arrival from/to the country of origin. So you can't go MAN-TXL-LHR-DBX-LHR-somewhere else since you depart the UK from MAN and you cannot re-enter the UK until you have visited the other continents in the trip.

You could go LHR-HEL-BCN-FRA-HEL-SIN as you are not re-entering the UK.
Yes, Australia-AKL-HKG is very good for DONEx and AONEx and good for CX points/status. CX flight still earn points and SC's for QF members at the same base rate as QF flights, just not the status bonus that you get with QF/BA/AA, so its not too bad. Still better than BA/AA earning and as good as AY, IB etc.

Did that answer the question? Sounds like we need to arrange a BNE QP visit sometime in September ^ .

Question answered with a question...
 

Operation Beercall is official, I will pass you the dates as soon as possible.

It might be useful if you posted the complete set of QF FFP rules in terms of distance/status points/award points for the different carriers on 1W.

I am gradually setting up a complete set of distance/award for all likely xONEx flights for both QF and BA. I do not have access to this at the moment but if you could remind me or provide the link on the QF.au site then I will start getting serious with the mileage excel sheets.

Looking forward to meeting you before/after the ASASI conference.

Spotwelder

I'd suggest EZE-JFK-LAX-SYD instead for 2 reasons: EZE-JFK is a non-stop on AA 763 which is probably the most comfortable plane in Y (also AA catering out of EZE is superb, much better than LanChile). Similarly better to break in LAX otherwise JFK-SYD is awfully long in Y. Finally LA is awful in Y, bearable in J and only nice in F (similarly MAD-GIG on IB is truly dreadful; you could fly AA MAD-MIA-EZE or MAD-MIA-GIG if you drop a sector somewhere else, I would do almost anything to avoid IB in Y long-haul -- the rules allow a transit without stopover in North America when going Europe-SA). As mentioned earlier you could do HEL-LED by boat and use that sector to improve the long-haul comfort significantly.

I expect the reason for considering LA and IB over AA is the fact that he will get 100% QF points with IB and LA, while only 50% for an L fare on AA.

So it is going to be a trade-off for points verses service. Tough choice :confused: .

Unfortunately since 1st January this year its been a big fat zero for QF points on an L fare on AA (and not even any SC's to help soften the blow either). So it's definitely a big incentive to avoid AA wherever possible, or to use any codeshares that are available instead if using AA metal.

Yes, of coourse that is correct. I went to the QFF web to check before posting and of course didn't go the T&C fine print where the specific class restrictsions are listed.

QF really are quite misleading when advertising 50% miles for AA discount economy fares, since they list twice as many 0% earning fares than 50% earning fare types! And they don't mention the 0% at all on the QFF "What will I earn" pages, only the 100% for full fare and 50% for discount economy fare. The 0% only come in if you follow the definition of "eligible" fares.

LONEly point collection
 

Looks like we need to set up a table for point collecting on LONEx tickets for the different FFPs and different partner airlines. I guess that this would be an 8x8 matrix. Obviously, we are beginning to pick up some of the table in this discussion. Would we need to add Status Bonus to that, I guess we could put in a symbol for that if it was available.

Is this a good idea? I would be willing to start it off but I do not have a web posting site but I could put it on the bottom of the updated cost per country of each fare that is elsewhere on the 1W site.

Comments?

you're on. thanks for all your advice. the trip isn't until january, so i have plenty of time to consider the revelation by GibSpmuh that L class is not worth the AA e-ticket it will be printed on for QF members. And neither is it when on an Aer Lingus flight either.

this will mean that i will almost certainly fly the JFK-SYD leg all the way home on QF will probably continue to try and fly from EZE into the US but perhaps on an AA operated service, but with an LA or LP flight number.

i like the idea of doing HEL-LED by boat. thanks eamus. and thanks Mwenenzi for the idea of starting in ADL to get to BNE.

as for avoiding MAD-GIG on IB, i will seriously try. but now that the no points in L class on AA has been revealed to me, perhaps i will just rough it on IB and make sure i carry strong sleeping pills with me.

i think this is a great idea. i don't have a web posting site either, but perhaps whomever organises http://www.hardlink.com/~markdu/OWFiles/ would allow such information to be included.

Cheers, David

I have a web site where I would gladly host this info.

Maybe worth checking to see if this is still correct.

It worked the same the other way round i.e., no AA miles for an L class fare on QF (effective January 1)..... at least that's what I recall. I recently wrote to AA about not getting AA miles on a QF 'O' class ticket (a whole different story...). In writing to them, I went back to the AA website to re-check the QF earning classes; I quoted some of that to AA, including some of the fare-earning classes .... which included L (at 50%). I only half-thought about it at the time, as I thought L was not mileage-earning but as it wasn't the 'focus of my attention' at the time, didn't think much more about it.

This morning, I received a response from AA to my letter - the usual non-response, telling me a lot of stuff I already know and not actually addressing the one question I asked. In the response however, the AA writer said "The following Qantas fares are not eligible for AAdvantage mileage accrual: L, O, Q, W”

Off the top of my head, I would have originally agreed with the AA writer that L tickets don't earn miles .... but that's not what the AA website showed when I looked at it last week. Going back this morning to look at it again, the AA website now has a little footnote that says the 50% earning on QF L fares is "effective July 1." I know that wasn't there last week and obviously contradicts AA's letter to me .... so something has changed recently. You may want to check with QF to see if it's changed on the QF end... ....

Unfortunately a look at the T&C's of the QF FFP still read:
But I know I'll definitely be happy if and when this changes (but I won't hold my breath).

Yes, but.....

Firstly, the QF website is a master of obfuscation. I found I had to read this about three times to figure out what it was saying - it's basically a negative - if we don't mention a fare class, then it earns miles ... unless it's one of the exceptions. Try taking a look at the AA website - I'm not saying it's great but it's a model of clarity in comparison....

My suggestion is to call QF. AA has clearly "slipped in" a change to the earning rate for L class fares on QF ...it's been "quietly" added to the AA website. Perhaps QF hasn't yet got around to making the "reciprocal" change on its website?

On economy class bookings in L class. BA, AA does not allow you to waitlist in L class. So bear this in mind when you plan your trips and opt for alternatives.