optimize first rtw
 

You know you could save a heap of money (at the cost of some miles) by starting in TPE? This could work if you could go to NRT before DEL and then straight to London...

TPE-NRT-HKG-DEL-LHR... ...HKG-TPE

then for the US the best I can come up with is:

LHR-SFO-DFW-ANC-DFW-JFK-PHX-JFK-HKG

which is 26687 miles rather than the 24467 that you had.

lhr-lax-sju-dfw-anc-dfw-sju-jfk-hkg will get you nearly 29k miles

I think you will have problems with the rules based on the start of your planned itinerary:

hkg-del-hkg-nrt-hkg

See this rule:
Your itinerary has your departing HKG three times (to DEL, to NRT and then to LHR) and arriving three times (from DEL, from NRT and then from JFK).

These fares are frestricted by the rules to try to stop people having much flexibility in their country of origin except to get you to/from a convenient international gateway. And for HKG there is only one international gateway!

If you were to start in another country, you could then use HKG as a stopover and transit point.

I am actually starting in TPE - and booking with CX Taipei office for TWD 164'000. (TWD:USD 33.6:1) I just left it out when posting the itinerary to make it easier on the eyes. ;). which also solves the other problem so kindly pointed out above. thanks guys.

Problem with the Asian part is a schedule of business meetings. Thanks for the US suggestion. I'll look into that.

If starting (and finishing) in TPE, I think you may still have a problem. That would make the routing commence with TPE-HKG-DEL-HKG-NRT-HKG and end with JFK-HKG-TPE. I make that six sectors in Asia where you are only permitted four. And you can't purchase additional sectors in your continent-of-origin.
Also, I assume you are planning stopovers in DEL and NRT. All connections through HKG will need to be transit only (less than 24 ours).
You may need to consider taking the DEL or NRT trip as a seperate ticket??

i called CX today regarding the last recommendation, and they said it was no problem, my segments being TPE-DEL, DEL-HKG, HKG-NRT and NRT-HKG, the last HKG-TPE would not count they said. this whole segment business is utterly confusing to me. TPE-HKG-DEL is one segment, but DEL-HKG-NRT is two. Go figure. Apparently they don't count TPE/HKG at all.

That advice from CX is simply wrong, and their ticketing desk would refuse to issue a ticket like that. A segment is a single flight number without interruption of journey. I suspect they are making the same mistake as other CX offices have with me (specifically Paris) which is to misinterpret "segment" as "stopover", not realising that if that were the case some of us would fly continuously with no stopovers for several days in order to get a huge number of miles.

TPE-DEL is definately two segments. It is two different flight numbers. For example, it is CX401 TPE-HKG and CX753 HKG-DEL. The flight number for the TPE-HKG segment varies depending on the day (eg CX531, CX471 or CX401). The only way it can be one segment is if it is one flight number all the way through, and it is not.

The same thing for the JFK-HKG-TPE. This is two different flight numbers and hence two separate coupons required, therefore two segments.

deleting accidental post

If that is what CX says, then I say, issue the ticket right away! We wouldn't want you to plan the trip and then be disappointed when the ticketing agent won't issue the ticket!

But I, too say that TPE-HKG-DEL-HKG-NRT-HKG... HKG-TPE is 6 sectors and you are definitely allowed only 4. And you are only allowed 2 stopovers in asia.. which is DEL and NRT I presume.

ok, i called again, Mirinda said that they don't count TPE-HKG because there is no other OW carrier in Taiwan and you HAVE to take the segment to get out Asia. I pointed out the obvious alternatives TPE-NRT/KIX/ICN/FUK, which would count as a segment, so e.g. TPE-NRT-HKG-DEL-HKG would be the maximum 4 segments, but TPE-HKG-DEL-HKG-NRT-HKG is also allowed. after what you guys told me (thanks for all the help!) I asked them to check carefully and get back to me. next week. I'll be in Thailand until then :)

I don't want any problems, and I find this RTW business very annoying. according to what I read on this board, there isn't an airline or agent in the world who really knows this product the way they should. :rolleyes:

GB: what if I get the ticket issued and then it turns out to be illegal??? Quoi faire?

I would have thought that once the ticket is issued no one can refuse you to reserve and board the flights as ticketed.....is that not right?

But there may be a problem if you need to have the ticket re-issued later due to change.

There is nothing in any of the STAR files I have read about such a rule. In fact, if that were the case, anyone starting at a non-intercontinental gateway could claim their initial flight segment does not count. eg Someone starting in Canberra in Australia could claim their CBR-SYD initial segment does not count - but we all know it most certainly does count for both the 20 segment max rounting caclulation and the max 4 segments in SWP calculation. That is the very reason they allow 4 segments in your home continent, so you can get to/from the inter-continental gateway.

The OneWorld Explorer fare is structured to get you to other continents other than your own. They have to build in some flexibility in the home continent in order to get you to/from the inter-continental gateway, and they even permit 2 stopovers in your home continent - expected to be at the international gateway even though they are not required to be so.

It is not right, though often an invalidly issued ticket would be allowed to be used. However the rules are clear, you can be left stranded (and forced to pay full fare to continue the trip); having the ticket issued does not grandfather in any rule violations, and you can even be denied travel after the illegal sector has already been flown. Once again very low probability of this happening, but it can happen and you don't have a legal recourse for being stranded and forced to pay a high fare (depending on what city you happen to be stranded in). Whenever I have a ticket issued which relies on some obscure rule, I always have the issuing agent document the validity of the routing in the PNR and this has stood me in good stead when future questions arise. Of course this strategy only applies if you are in compliance with the rules and not relying on a mistake.

geez guys you are freaking me out. just got back from ko samui, next week i am going to tackle this whole RTW thing ... :cool:

problem solved. I just spoke to both CX Taiwan and MPC about my itinerary as posted: TPE-HKG-DEL-HKG-NRT-HKG-LHR ............ JFK-HKG-TPE.

No problem, both said, the rule being that ' in the continent of origin ', you can have a maximum of two STOPOVERS, but unlimited segments. I pointed out that "unlimited segments" is probably no the exact wording of the rules ... i have found no reference to this in the rules, but by now I have been assured by two different people at Cathay in Taipei and the MPC in Hong Kong that my itinerary is legal. Maybe somebody finds the pertinent rule, I am not gonna invest more time in this. MPC said if they'd actually enforce 'four segments' in Asia, nobody would by RTW tickets ex Taipei.
Well. I have recorded the conversation with MPC and CX, so in case they don't let me on a flight, I play them the tape. ;)

How interesting... so can you break the 20 segment rule as well? What is to stop you just doing HKG-NRT-HKG-NRT-.... for as long as you want in order to get, say, Diamond status?

Personally I wouldn't risk it.

well, that's what I thought. I am hugely disappointed by this whole RTW business - can't seem to get reliable information. But a colleague tells me Star Alliance is even worse in that matter.

I hope to ticket the itinerary in a week or two, maybe somebody cries wolf then.

all legal
 

it's all perfectly legal. i checked the rules. appearantly you guys are mislead by the 4 sector rule.

Here is what it says on the oneworld website:

Flights and stopovers
You are allowed to taketwo stopovers in total within your continent of origin in order to get to or from a gateway to commence or return from your international travel.
After departing from your continent of origin, you are allowed to take up tofour flights to explore each of the other continents (six flights in North America).
You can book up totwo additional flights per continent, at a set rate.

http://www.oneworld.com/products/det...fm?ObjectID=21

The confusion arises over the limit of 2 stopovers in the continent of origin. Without this limitation, one could have 4 stopovers in one's continent of origin. I don't understand the need for this rule, but it is explicitly stated.

The star files define stopovers and the number of free flight segments per continent independently from each other. The rules explicitly state that one cannot buy additional segments in the continent of origin beyond the limit of free segments. The rules also state the number of free flight segments per continent. I have seen that language in the AA, BA, and CX version of the rules. It seems that the oneworld website is not consistent with the actual airline rules, where only stopovers are mentioned in the continent of origin.

This is a recurring problem with airlines. Travellers become angry when there is a conflict between the website and the airline rules. If ticketed, go for it. Just remember that you take a big risk if you need to do a reissue.

The "rules" on the OW website are not the complete "rules" for the OWE fare. Also from the same OW "rules" to which you cite:
I hope everything works out for you.

I humbly kneel before this mighty board
 

To avoid an upcoming fuel charge, I decided to get my RTW ticketed yesterday. Finally the truth came out when CX reservations passed the itinerary to ticketing. You guys were right all along. I humbly kneel before this mighty omnisapient board. And I will never put the opinion of professional airline agents before the wisdom of this board, I swear. :p

The CX ticketing agent told me that my RTW was illegal, I would have to buy HKG-NRT-HKG as a separate ticket. It´s four segments, also in the continent of origin, with 2 stopovers, everbody seems to be mislead by the extra mentioning of 2 stopovers, or whatever. They also say it happens all the time, "reservation people don´t understand ticketing rules!". Good grief. :rolleyes:

I guess TPE-NRT-HKG-DEL will work then won´t it, which lowers the mileage count by almost 8000. :(