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RTW price hike
Since 2020 (the last time I booked an RTW) the price of a business class ticket for a 4 continent trip has gone up from 7,500 Euro to 9,500 Euro (that is a hell of a hike). Around 2,500 of that is surcharges and taxes. I see that more than 1,800 Euro is for the famous "carrier surcharges" of which BA is the most infamous. At least that is my understanding. I have tried to remove BA from the entire itinerary but the surcharges remain the same. I am assuming then that either I am wrong about BA or there is an agreement with all parties involved that the surcharges remain the same whichever airline is used.
Can anyone confirm? |
Originally Posted by mjack99
(Post 35377304)
Since 2020 (the last time I booked an RTW) the price of a business class ticket for a 4 continent trip has gone up from 7,500 Euro to 9,500 Euro (that is a hell of a hike). Around 2,500 of that is surcharges and taxes. I see that more than 1,800 Euro is for the famous "carrier surcharges" of which BA is the most infamous. At least that is my understanding. I have tried to remove BA from the entire itinerary but the surcharges remain the same. I am assuming then that either I am wrong about BA or there is an agreement with all parties involved that the surcharges remain the same whichever airline is used.
Can anyone confirm? On my most recent RTW and others I've been able to price out, the fees are about 100,000 JPY (ex-TYO itinerary). That's all taxes and surcharges, not just YQ/YR, so not nearly the amount you're seeing. |
Thanks, dvs7310. Originating from BRU. So looking back at the 2020 itinerary, the base fare is indeed more or less the same but the fees and taxes are significantly higher (900 Euro compared to 2,450 Euro). I don't have the taxes and fees breakdown of the 2020 trip but I suspect the biggest difference is in the so called Carrier Surcharge.
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Originally Posted by mjack99
(Post 35377434)
Thanks, dvs7310. Originating from BRU. So looking back at the 2020 itinerary, the base fare is indeed more or less the same but the fees and taxes are significantly higher (900 Euro compared to 2,450 Euro). I don't have the taxes and fees breakdown of the 2020 trip but I suspect the biggest difference is in the so called Carrier Surcharge.
To see your current fuel surcharges you have to go to the Review Flights page and click details. It doesn't break it down by airline however, so you have to play around with changing the airlines on key sectors and can likely find it that way. The total airline surcharges on my example are 78,610 JPY but I wouldn't know how that breaks down by airline until I ticketed it if ticketing through the tool. A RTW travel agent should be able to tell you though. https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fly...e2d3c9f761.jpg |
CAI seems to have vanished from Expertflyer just as I was about to book a good value D class RTW originating from there. Does anyone know the reason?
Thanks |
Originally Posted by hsmall
(Post 35384863)
CAI seems to have vanished from Expertflyer just as I was about to book a good value D class RTW originating from there. Does anyone know the reason?
Thanks https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/onew...periences.html The fare has only disappeared from certain airlines, most notably BA. I'd guess the profit from dealing with the ticketing and changes are too low. Right now on EF I can see ex-CAI DONEx fares from AA, AS, AY, CX, JL, MH, QF, RJ, UL, and IB. Not saying you could book one on all of those ex-CAI, apparently AA has said they've stopped issuing them from CAI even though the fare is still filed. CX has recently told another FTer that they'll only issue if they are the first carrier on the ticket (that however was from a single FT'er, so may be just a HUCA issue), AS apparently won't issue them at all (from any point of origin), so the options are dwindling. QF seems to be the issuing airline if your first segment is on RJ, QR, or AT and that's best to be avoided if you ever want to make ticket changes. I have no idea what the issuance policies are from AY, JL, MH, and IB, you'd have to inquire though IB does have CAI flights on some days... UL may not be around in a year so personally would avoid them, plus their customer service seems to be fairly incompetent based on the AUH-CGK premium fare thread. But for the ex-CAI issue specifically you'd be best following in the Pricing thread I linked above. |
Originally Posted by dvs7310
(Post 35381727)
Yes, almost certainly. Curious the itinerary and carriers, one of us might be able to help narrow down the culprit and advise a re-route. For example use IB or QR for the transatlantic, don't have any stopovers in the UK, (APD itself is quite a chunk) etc.
To see your current fuel surcharges you have to go to the Review Flights page and click details. It doesn't break it down by airline however, so you have to play around with changing the airlines on key sectors and can likely find it that way. The total airline surcharges on my example are 78,610 JPY but I wouldn't know how that breaks down by airline until I ticketed it if ticketing through the tool. A RTW travel agent should be able to tell you though. https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fly...7327fa447c.jpg https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fly...6afe9b4907.jpg |
Originally Posted by dvs7310
(Post 35385211)
It's been discussed in the Pricing thread
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/onew...periences.html The fare has only disappeared from certain airlines, most notably BA. I'd guess the profit from dealing with the ticketing and changes are too low. Right now on EF I can see ex-CAI DONEx fares from AA, AS, AY, CX, JL, MH, QF, RJ, UL, and IB. Not saying you could book one on all of those ex-CAI, apparently AA has said they've stopped issuing them from CAI even though the fare is still filed. CX has recently told another FTer that they'll only issue if they are the first carrier on the ticket (that however was from a single FT'er, so may be just a HUCA issue), AS apparently won't issue them at all (from any point of origin), so the options are dwindling. QF seems to be the issuing airline if your first segment is on RJ, QR, or AT and that's best to be avoided if you ever want to make ticket changes. EF still shows the fares, except when quote in Egyptian Pounds. |
Originally Posted by mjack99
(Post 35385378)
I have attached the itinerary below and also the fare breakdown. Just talked to BA and the cost code they are seeing is YQAC but they didn't know which airline was causing it.
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fly...7327fa447c.jpg https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fly...6afe9b4907.jpg Code:
1 BA 391D 15JAN 1 BRULHR SS1 1015 1030 /DCBA /EThere are 2 ways you can avoid it. First is to change the QF flight to AA code-share if possible (though I don't see availability on your date). The 1145+11=1156EUR YR/YQ goes away. Code:
1 BA 391D 15JAN 1 BRULHR SS1 1015 1030 /DCBA /EThe second option would be to try to get a Sabre TA who can use QR plate to issue the ticket. When Sabre autoprices, QR only charges YQ/YR on QR and BA flights, not QF flights, although if you talk to QR directly, they might calculate things differently. You can still try calling QR directly, though. Perhaps they still quote a lower total. However, be prepared to face pushbacks from TA and/or QR because QR prefers to be the first inter-TC segment if its plate is used. Code:
WPQDONE4¥RW¥SBRU¥TBRU¥AQR¥« |
Originally Posted by allset2travel
(Post 35385545)
Given the above BOLDED text, has anyone been able to get an ex-CAI xONEx ticketed either online OR by an airline? I am contemplating an ex-CAI DONE4 (itinerary is WIP) for late this year.
EF still shows the fares, except when quote in Egyptian Pounds. |
Originally Posted by ernestnywang
(Post 35386263)
The big chunk of your carrier surcharges comes from QF. YQ+YR from the DFW-SYD flight is 1145+11=1156EUR. This is levied whether the ticket is issued by BA, AA, or QF itself.
There are 2 ways you can avoid it. First is to change the QF flight to AA code-share if possible (though I don't see availability on your date). The 1145+11=1156EUR YR/YQ goes away. The second option would be to try to get a Sabre TA who can use QR plate to issue the ticket. When Sabre autoprices, QR only charges YQ/YR on QR and BA flights, not QF flights, although if you talk to QR directly, they might calculate things differently. You can still try calling QR directly, though. Perhaps they still quote a lower total. However, be prepared to face pushbacks from TA and/or QR because QR prefers to be the first inter-TC segment if its plate is used. Code:
.Also interesting advice you have about trying to get it QR plated. I've built in QR for intra-Europe segments before, so if QR insists on being the first TC segment, I'd suspect the OP could go BRU-DOH-DFW-AUS (or via ORD, JFK, MIA, etc. though DFW is by far the most pleasant to arrive at). If my understanding of QR YQ/YR is correct, they have a flat rate that's a decent chunk regardless of how many sectors you have then a pretty small amount per segment on top of that, so I'd think that'd bring it down significantly. |
Originally Posted by dvs7310
(Post 35385211)
It's been discussed in the Pricing thread
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/onew...periences.html The fare has only disappeared from certain airlines, most notably BA. I'd guess the profit from dealing with the ticketing and changes are too low. Right now on EF I can see ex-CAI DONEx fares from AA, AS, AY, CX, JL, MH, QF, RJ, UL, and IB. Not saying you could book one on all of those ex-CAI, apparently AA has said they've stopped issuing them from CAI even though the fare is still filed. CX has recently told another FTer that they'll only issue if they are the first carrier on the ticket (that however was from a single FT'er, so may be just a HUCA issue), AS apparently won't issue them at all (from any point of origin), so the options are dwindling. QF seems to be the issuing airline if your first segment is on RJ, QR, or AT and that's best to be avoided if you ever want to make ticket changes. I have no idea what the issuance policies are from AY, JL, MH, and IB, you'd have to inquire though IB does have CAI flights on some days... UL may not be around in a year so personally would avoid them, plus their customer service seems to be fairly incompetent based on the AUH-CGK premium fare thread. But for the ex-CAI issue specifically you'd be best following in the Pricing thread I linked above. |
Originally Posted by dvs7310
(Post 35386865)
This is quite interesting to me as well. This seems to vary quite a lot then by the origin of the fare. On my most recent RTW, I had two long haul QF flights but the YQ/YR was still quite low. (HND-SYD and SYD-DFW, both QF coded). Similarly another one I'm currently working on starts off with, HND-SYD-AKL and AKL-JFK on QF codes are still giving me a very similar YQ/YR as last year's ticket. So it seems that if you're ex TYO you don't get hit nearly as hard on QF surcharges. The current one in the works has 78,610 JPY in total airline surcharges (~$545) even with those 3 QF segments. My ticket last year has 30,200 JPY YQ, 25,180 YR = 55,380 total (~$384), the one labeled as Airline Insurance Surcharge is probably there too, I just don't know the code for it.
Also interesting advice you have about trying to get it QR plated. I've built in QR for intra-Europe segments before, so if QR insists on being the first TC segment, I'd suspect the OP could go BRU-DOH-DFW-AUS (or via ORD, JFK, MIA, etc. though DFW is by far the most pleasant to arrive at). If my understanding of QR YQ/YR is correct, they have a flat rate that's a decent chunk regardless of how many sectors you have then a pretty small amount per segment on top of that, so I'd think that'd bring it down significantly. Yes, for QR, when YQ is charged, it is charged on an "entire itinerary" basis, so better to have just no QR segments or lots of QR segments. QR does not charge YR/YQ on many other airlines (when using Sabre autoprice). QR only adds a low per-segment YR. |
Originally Posted by ernestnywang
(Post 35387407)
Yes, it's a complicated matrix of origin, plating carrier, and marketing carriers used. I believe for Japan origin indeed the YQ/YR can be quite low in some cases. I have not figured out all the patterns, though.
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Originally Posted by dvs7310
(Post 35386821)
You can definitely still get one from the OneWorld website, but it'll almost certainly be issued by QF and that's to be avoided. You can find a numerous other threads about the nightmares that brings when it comes to making changes including one started by myself. These days, never ever get a QF plated RTW, they no longer have a team to deal with them. Last ex-CAI one I tried to price on the site was in AUD, not EGP... a dead giveaway that it's going to be ticketed by QF.
You are right about avoiding QF due to high YR/YR and bad call center agents! On the tools, I CAN NOT get it to price due to (before even putting in flight selection and dates) red flag of "More than 2 stops in continent of origin is not allowed". I knew that. My last resort is to call AA with an EF validated itinerary and see if AA can PRICE it and TICKET it. I was wondering if anyone here had success with AA on an ex-CAI itinerary. |
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