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D Inventory Available for 2 Segments But Not as Connection

D Inventory Available for 2 Segments But Not as Connection

Old May 9, 2019, 6:50 am
  #46  
 
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Originally Posted by christep
Edit. It was certainly possible to have 20 segments, but I thought I recalledl more being possible. The oldest rule sheet I can immediately find is 2006, which had the 20 limit. And that was flight segments.

The 16 segment thing (including surface segments) was imposed by the "enhancement" of e-ticketing. Once e-ticketing arrived there was an overlapping period where paper tickets could also be issued, but then they could only be 16 segments (so there was no advantage to paper ticketing).
Yes, exactly, because e-tickets are restricted to a "booklet" of 4 tickets.
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Old May 9, 2019, 6:51 am
  #47  
 
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Originally Posted by pandaperth
Oh what I would do with 36 segments!!

But I think your arithmetic is faulty. Let's see:
  • 6 in NAM
  • 4 in SAM
  • 4 in Europe/Middle east
  • 4 in Africa
  • 4 in Asia
  • 4 in SWP
  • 10 extra purchased segments (2 in each continent, except continent of origin IIRC)
  • 6 inter-continental flights
  • 3 extra inter-continental flights (for 2nd visits to northern hemisphere continents - where 2nd visits allowed to all three continents back then?)
Grand total = 45 segments ??!!

I wonder who got the most segments? Perhaps we need a separate thread where people can brag (I can't brag - my max is 17, which only happened due to a schedule change)
That's not how you calcalate it, mate. I believe paper tickets are also limited to booklet of 5 tickets (so 20 total), but for this I'm not 100% sure. xONEx were definitely limited to 20 segments total, though.

Last edited by ernestnywang; May 9, 2019 at 6:58 am Reason: Used the wrong tense
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Old May 9, 2019, 6:54 am
  #48  
 
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Originally Posted by christep
Was the removal of open-dated ticketing was another "Enhancement" brought about by e-ticketing?
Open-dated ticketing remains possible! Nevertheless, it can frequently create problems when you are booking flights across different airlines that use different systems, so it is strongly discouraged. I believe the technology is there between Amadeus carriers, but most airlines still discourage / prohibit it.
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Old May 9, 2019, 6:54 am
  #49  
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Originally Posted by ernestnywang
xONEx are definitely limited to 20 segments total, though.
Yes, they are now, but the point is that they weren't in 1999!
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Old May 9, 2019, 6:57 am
  #50  
 
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Originally Posted by Dr. HFH
If you set up a ticket, input your name, phone, FFNo, etc., then cancel all the flights, the PNR still remains intact as a shell.
1. Sure, there will be no "live" segments, but the segments (or coupons) dictated on the ticket remain there.
2. No, the PNR has a risk of being purged if it contains no live segments. I know Sabre now doesn't really purge PNRs that "had" a segment in the future (so if on 01JAN you booked a segment on 01APR, and then cancelled it immediately, the PNR wouldn't really get purged before 01APR), but I'm not sure about Amadeus.
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Old May 9, 2019, 6:58 am
  #51  
 
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Originally Posted by christep
Yes, they are now, but the point is that they weren't in 1999!
It was not limited to 20 segments (not 16) in 1999?
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Old May 9, 2019, 7:02 am
  #52  
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No. See, for example, this discussion here of a 30 segment journey by @3544quebec (who is still active here) in 1999 (in FIrst for US$6000!) (and also the STAR file I copied above)
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/1690902-post1.html
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Old May 9, 2019, 7:13 am
  #53  
 
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Originally Posted by christep
No. See, for example, this discussion here of a 30 segment journey by @3544quebec (who is still active here) in 1999 (in FIrst for US$6000!) (and also the STAR file I copied above)
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/1690902-post1.html
Wow that's something for me to learn. The oldest rule I have (from BA) is dated 2005 and had the 20-segment restriction. I only started to learn all these things around 2002.

If it were possible to have 30 segments, it may mean that paper tickets were not limited to booklet of 5, but I wonder in this case how things all fit (fare calculations, etc.).
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Old May 9, 2019, 7:16 am
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I remember fare calculations as a simple A4 sheet stapled onto the (hand-written) ticket.
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Old May 9, 2019, 7:24 am
  #55  
 
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Originally Posted by MiamiPrep
I have routing LAX-JFK-MIA on 4/15/19 for DONE04. There is D availability on each of the 2 flights individually, but AA says it is booked as a connection and there is no D for JFK-MIA (even though EF shows D3). Is this something new? Any ideas how to get the segments to 'force'? For now I'm in Y JFK-MIA. (AA is correct. On EF I entered LAX-MIA with connection in JFK, and there is D0).

Back to the OP's predicament: if it hasn't been sorted out already, wouldn't a wait-list request for "D" on the JFK-MIA sector do the trick? Sure, it's insane that it can't be booked in one call, but to get the seat desired on the flight in question, asking (via the wait-list) should be the surest fire way to communicate the request to the revenue management team/algorithm.

This said: I also fondly recall the flexibility that paper tickets allowed. The distinction between ticket and reservation was much clearer back then, and I'd often have the bulk of my ticket initially issued as OPEN, simply calling the operating (or marketing) airline and creating a new PNR to hold the reservation of the flights I'd wanted to take next. As long as I provided the ticket-number for them to note along with the reservation request, this was never a problem. I'd sometimes have to have the paper ticket "stickered" to reflect the reserved flight, but often, the OPEN ticket was simply uplifted as-is. Ah - the halcyon days.
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Old May 9, 2019, 7:27 am
  #56  
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Originally Posted by checkerboard
This said: I also fondly recall the flexibility that paper tickets allowed. The distinction between ticket and reservation was much clearer back then, and I'd often have the bulk of my ticket initially issued as OPEN, simply calling the operating (or marketing) airline and creating a new PNR to hold the reservation of the flights I'd wanted to take next. As long as I provided the ticket-number for them to note along with the reservation request, this was never a problem. I'd sometimes have to have the paper ticket "stickered" to reflect the reserved flight, but often, the OPEN ticket was simply uplifted as-is. Ah - the halcyon days.
Yes indeed - those were the days. And now all "enhanced" out of existence in the name of "progress".
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Old May 9, 2019, 7:31 am
  #57  
 
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Originally Posted by christep
I remember fare calculations as a simple A4 sheet stapled onto the (hand-written) ticket.
Ha yeah sounds like the practice back then. Because it won't fit on ATB tickets (the "hard" paper tickets), so the only way would be to use the carbon copy ("soft") tickets with something stapled I guess.

The only handwritten ticket I have is an AS "visit pass" ticket issued by the AS GSA (General Sales Agent) in Taiwan from 2002 or 2003.
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Old May 9, 2019, 8:11 am
  #58  
 
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Originally Posted by christep
No. See, for example, this discussion here of a 30 segment journey by @3544quebec (who is still active here) in 1999 (in FIrst for US$6000!) (and also the STAR file I copied above)
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/1690902-post1.html
Ohhhhhh, the nostalgia of reading that thread from 20 years ago I think $US6000 was for a RTW in a bassinet, surely.

I'm sad to say that I have not progressed in life from my infant obsessions (I still suck my thumb too)
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Old May 9, 2019, 9:39 am
  #59  
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Originally Posted by ernestnywang
Wow that's something for me to learn. The oldest rule I have (from BA) is dated 2005 and had the 20-segment restriction. I only started to learn all these things around 2002.

If it were possible to have 30 segments, it may mean that paper tickets were not limited to booklet of 5, but I wonder in this case how things all fit (fare calculations, etc.).
You could go beyond 30 segments on an AONE6 under those old rules if you were creative enough.
The move to 20 segments was drastic (and counting intercontinental segments) seriously devalued these tickets and made the 5 and 6 continent tickets less viable.
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Old May 9, 2019, 10:44 am
  #60  
 
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My 28 segments DONEWC3 was issued in 2003.
To attach fare calculation to every coupon, CX Tokyo ticketing office made duplicated copy of fare calculation on small papers, and attached them to back side of all coupons.
So, very thick paper ticket.

BTW, It contained day trip from LHR to HEL. At HEL immigration, officer checked my ticket about 30 minutes.
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