RTW in "First" on AA
 

I just completed a ow RTW trip in First class and to my dismay the only airline that would not allow me to fly in First Class was AA. I flew LHR-HKG on BA in First and HKG-LAX on Cathay in First. Both experiences were wonderful. And then I had to deal with an aggressive AA agent in LAX who insisted that I am only allowed to fly in business class on my LAX-JFK flight. She explained that on a 3 class service flight my ticket "allows' me to fly only business. How strange, my BA and CX flights were 3 class, and the service and comfort of their first class far exceeds AA. So why is AA allowed to refuse me first class on a First Class oneworld RTW ticket? Can someone please explain.

What fare code were you booked in for that flight? Did they actually *remove* you from first, even with an A code?!?!?!? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

On AA, on 3 class aircraft, these is a debate as to what is First Class and what is Premium. Because of all the 3 class upgrade fiascos, agents have it in their minds that First is not First it is Premium. Business is First. On all other airlines, First is First as it should be on AA.

Depends on the agent. Generally calling in a supervisor to assist clears it all up and you should get your "Premium" seat!

The ticket was booked in A class. I was originally booked in First on the flight to EWR (2 class aircraft), but due to a delayed departure, I opted for the JFK flight. The admirals club told me that there were a number of seats available in First, and one available in business. She said it would be up to the gate agent since A class on AA is business. I got to the gate and told the agent I had just flown around the world in First, but she would not even listen and told me that in a 3 class aircraft, A is business. This seems completely out of line for a ow RTW fist ticket. How cann AA be different than the rest....By the way, First was half full.

You are right VENTURES. Your A ticket provides you to go iin First in a three class
aircraft. THE AGENT was wrong. Call AA immediately. You deserve an apology. I also fleww AA RTW in first and had AA Premium trans con NOT business.!!!!

Here is what could have happened. Without paying any attention to what fare codes actually mean, the agent may have decided on her own that you bought a seat in the second cabin of an aircraft for a different flight. Since you were sitting in the second cabin on your original flight, you should sit in the second cabin on the flight you are changing to.

A similar problem I have experienced on flights outside the US was when I booked a 2 cabin aircraft to begin with (D class), then switch to a 3 cabin plane at the airport, the agent only notices the fare code for that particular segment which is D (because I was originally booked in biz because there was no First). In your case though, the fare code for your EWR flight should have been A anyway. AA doesn't consider domestic two cabin as biz and econ. They consider it First and econ unlike foreign carriers.

I really can't understand the reasoning. From bottom up it goes D, J, A, F/P. When there is no P, there is F. A is always a front cabin seat regardless. If you have a First Class seat, you don't cabin in front of it(or above).

If they considered the front of the 3 cabin aircraft Premium and the next cabin is First, obviously coach is NOT biz. Where was biz then?. She said you were allowed to sit biz so you must have had a biz ticket. Where could biz have been? Makes no sense.

Another point is that those are the same planes that fly international. Any experienced or intelligent person working for AA SHOULD know that and A seats get First while D and J get biz. Apparently the person you spoke to was not one of the above people.

IMO, I recommend that you demand a refund of the difference between biz and first for that particular route and I am not talking the price in RTW terms. I mean full fare prices. Maybe then AA will teach people to learn fare codes. That situation should not have happened. The agent did not know his fare codes and you were not given the product you purchased. You should expect the difference in prices.

One other thing.....I would also mention in your letter that the Admiral's Club agent was also wrong. On AA, A is first. Fare codes don't change just because the aircraft does seating does.

Ventures, if you complain and AA replies, can you post what happens on this board, please? I am curious, since I am booked MIA-LAX in A class. I am going to assume that it is actual first class, as this is the 3-classer coming from SCL. Just curious as to whether I should expect problems.

I completely agree with ChrisMoss7. Although IMHO you are entitled to more than the $356 difference between Full First and the Full Business that you flew on that route. The agent should have known better. She must have gone out of her way to force the downgrade, since the computer would have booked you in Premium if she maintained the A class code. What class of service is reflected on you boarding pass? Is it D/J/C?

I would write a letter to customer service demanding compensation. AA has always been forthcoming when they are in the wrong. Also the vouchers that AA gives are valid on all 1-world carriers and can be used on a purchase of your next RTW!!!

Although I have never had this problem with AA, I have had the ChrisMoss7 explained issue when a ticketed 2 class service is changed for a 3 class service flight. In all cases, CX (HKG-NRT) QF (SYD-PER) LA (SLC-EZE) my ticket was issued in D class, but I was still entitled to First. It did take a bit of "discussion" (in the QF case out and out argument) and my guess is that someone less aware would have agreed to the Business Class seat.

Let us know what happens,
rich

Here is what I think happened. The agent saw that it was booked in A class which for AA means both discounted revenue first and upgraded first using miles. Given that most upgrades within the US are on 2 class services they may have mistakenly believed that it was an upgrade from coach. Something similar happened to me on a oneworld circle pacific ticket issued in A class. Taking my flight from NRT to SJC the agent asked me if I still wanted the upgrade and if so she would deduct the miles from my account. I suggested she look a bit further into the booking and note that it was an actual revenue booking in A class not an upgrade - a few keystrokes later and she was satisified.

Nevertheless, this does not excuse AA's actions. It is appalling that airport staff are not adequately trained in the difference between revenue and non-revenue classes. Though why AA chooses the one code to mean more than one thing is beyond me.

Upon examining my boarding pass, I notice the gate agent booked me in 'R' class. The whole episode left me very unhappy considerring I showed her my boarding passes from my CX and BA flights, and my original boarding pass to EWR was issued by CX in Hong Kong on a First Class boarding pass. THe agent first asked me if I wanted to pay the difference from Biz to First and when I objected, she told me she is closing the flight, so either take the biz class seat or not get on. Great customer service!

I was wondering about this A class, too. Ihave a business class Explorer RTW (DONEW3) and the North American sectors are a mixture of D and A. A is used for AA North American sectors on both business and first class RTW?

A is First on 2 class and Premium on 3 Class. If you board a 3 Class Aircraft the agent is supposed to check the fare basis to find which class of service your ticket entitles you to. A DONEW4 Class fare basis is only valid for First on 2 Class planes and Biz on 3 Class planes. A AONEW4 fare basis is valid for Premium.

I have never had a problem with AA on these tickets, but clearly some agents are also confused and you should be prepared to fight for what you are etitled to. Or in your D Class ticket, hope that if you switch to a 3 Class plane the agent just books you in A Class by mistake!!!

rich

rich

I think R class is upgraded business class. You certainly got done on this one. As RichLond said previously, the agent must have gone out of her way to change the booking codes. I would make a copy of the boarding passes and the ticket (showing the fare basis code) then submit them with letter of complaint to AA detailing the agent's actions. If you are an AAdvantage member I would be asking for some substantial compensation in terms of miles and vouchers for future travel.

My suggestion to others out there planning to take owe's owcp's and the old Global Explorer is take a printout of the fare rules and if there is an argument ask for a supervisor to look at the rules and resolve it. I've only had to do it a couple of times but it's been worth it.

Ventures, I experienced the same thing back in September. I had a AONEW4 fare similar to yours. Your ticket is definitely a first class ticket on a 3 class service!

In September, I wanted to take an earlier flight that the one I was booked on. It was a 3 class domestic service. When I arrived, they don't me that there were no first class seats. Then I heard someone ask for an upgrade to first class and the agent processed it. Upon hearing that, I immediately went up to them telling saying that I had a PAID RTW 1st class ticket so why did you tell me there are no 1st class seats? They told me that my A class ticket is an upgrade from economy ticket. I know that AA has used 'A' class for different things: RTW 1st, discounted 1st, and upgrade from coach which is probably what the agents see the most. I told them that I had paid $X,XXX so it was no way a coach ticket. I showed them the price of the ticket and then they began to believe me.

They then called the AA international fare desk to verify that the AONEW4 fare is really a first class ticket. It was verified and everything was okay and I got my seat. I didn't even bother to ask them why they told me there were no seats in first.

My suggestion: If the agent does not agree, ask them to call the AA International Fare desk who are familiar with the RTW fare codes and rules and they will clarify it.


[This message has been edited by bagold (edited 12-15-2000).]

Thanks everyone for your help. I did ask them to call the Int'l Desk, but since it was 10:55 PM in LA the desk was already closed. I will contact customer service today and advise you of their response.

Ventures
You should request (a) a refund for *involuntary* downgrade and (b) compensation for the hassle and (c) apologies for poor training of AA personnel. What you went trough, as a paid international first class traveler, is completely inexcusable, and it's not your job to keep track of what fare class structure an airline uses!

I spoke to customer relations in Dallas on Friday. The rep continued to argue with me that all i was entitled to on a transcon 3 class aircraft was business. I asked to speak to a supervisor but the rep told me he would check into it and call me right back.....still waiting.

I wonder how many others have had problems with OW Explorer tickets. The one I used in March originated in BOS on BA. When I got to the airport, despite having a paper ticket, BA had no record of my booking for either of my BA segments (BOS-LHR LHR-BKK). I almost missed the flight as it took nearly 45 minutes for them to decide whether I had a legitimate reservation and whether there was still inventory available.

BA also wouldn't clear the waitlist for me on the LHR-BKK segment in D class (Explorer fare code for business class) despite plenty of inventory available, even down to the day of the flight where we flew with open seats. I ended up paying for that segment separately, on top of the fixed OW Explorer ticket price for my other stops...it turns out I probably could have bought a OW Explorer in first class for cheaper (no idea if "A" inventory was available on all flights).

I have a similar set of flights coming up in February/March....not sure how best to approach it this time around.

Simplest way would be to call each airline on which you've got flights.

If you've got the SABRE reservation code, you can verify the reservations, and you'll also find the record locator for each of the airlines.

afterthought

The URL for checking your reservations on SABRE is www.virtuallythere.com .

[This message has been edited by wideman (edited 12-22-2000).]

Wideman: If you're posting was a response to mine, I had checked virutallythere.com and all of that..and in fact, when I called my travel agent during the confusion at the BA desk, they still showed my reservation. It just never made it into the BA computers at Logan.

Regarding BA reservations disappaering, it happened to me before too. I had NRT-LHR with BA reserved in a PNR made by AA, however, didn't show up on BA's computer. Luckily, I noticed two days before departure when I called BA (I always "re-confirm" with the career because I do know s*it happens), called AA, and eventually had them talk to each other directly. Was told that it was a computer glitch, and it was finally sorted out by manually putting in the record at BA's end.

Sorry to hear about the not-clearing of the waitlist... Shouldn't happen...

This happened to me also, AA ticket - confirmed seating with BA and then suddenly no res. Spent about an hour on the phone to BA who could not re-create the reservation as some flights were sold out.

BA blamed my Travel Agent who resequenced the sectors and apparently released some of them in error. Now I'm not sure I believe them!

If you have purchased a First Class (AONEW) Oneworld around the world ticket, you should be flying the highest class possible on a transcontinental 3-class flight.

All of this confusion comes from the ignorance of most major airlines in the US.

Look at the flight availability displays in the following cases http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gifother fare codes have been omitted to save space)

1AA 180 P1 J5 Y7 LAXJFK 8 430P 1237A�1 762
(three class transcontinental aircraft)
(on international flights such as LAX-LHR, the "P" is replaced with an "F")

1AA 152 F7 Y7 LAXEWR 9 1045P 654A�1 757
(two class domestic US aircraft)

1AA 403 J5 Y7 DFWMEX 711P 953P 72S
(two class international flight from Dallas to Mexcio City, notice the use of "J" for the higher class of service instead of "F")

The only solution would be to stop calling the higher class of service on a two class aircraft within North America "First Class", and start calling it "Business Class" just like on two class service between Dallas and Mexico City.

Other airlines such as Cathay Pacific have called their higher class of service on two class aircraft (within Asia) "Business Class" (which has service a lot better than "first class" on a US two class aircraft) instead of "First Class".

Since you have originally boooked your flight from LAX-EWR in "A" class (two class flight), and then decided to rebooked in "A" class on a three class flight from LAX-JFK, the airline agent may have got confused.

Traditionally, if you buy a ticket with fare basis "F" from LAX-EWR and then decided to take a three class aircraft, you would be accomodated in Business Class. (only solution to avoid confusion would be for AA to use the "J" fare basis and market their higher class of service on two-class aircraft as "business class")

Ventures - any update ?? kazman

right...you could sue them for breach of contract if you dont compensate you for their mistake...
why dont you simply call their customer service instead, ask them to verify with intl reservation....if all these failed, call whoever issued you ticket and pursue from that thread or simply sue them

Would you believe that I have now left 2 messages with the indiviual I initially spoke with in Customer Relations in Dallas and have yet to receive a call back.

Ventures,

did you ever get this resolved to your satisfaction??

ich

I suggest you write, as you will then have a written record and should AA not answer you can at least get the faer difference back from your credit card issuer. Do ask for compensation for the hassle and discomfort, not just for the fare difference, which is OWED to you due as per tariffs.

Also, don't forget to ask for your mileage posting to be corrected; since you were in R, you'll probably get coach-class miles!

I am sure they will compensate you. You should get more than the $400 or so fare difference for the insult and experience.

I'm really surprised there wasn't someone to appeal to?

I'm really surprised this hasn't been resolved by now. This is a black-and-white issue that should have been refunded expeditiously, particularly given the way it was handled at the gate.

One other thought on getting this matter expedited: call AA during business hours and ask to be transferred to the "RTW desk." Explain the situation in a friendly manner (they have a vested interest in the success of this program, too), and ask for their advice as to the next step you should pursue.

i has AA reported my A class as Y when i put into my BAEC.

it wasn;lt resolved for 1/2 year. until eventually i asked AAdv for missed mileage, they then said it was credited to BA.
i guess it was then i got my class of service corrected in BAEC