Cathay Sapphire better than CP Emerald?
 

Well, that's what the Cathay Pacific representative told me today when I asked to be waitlisted on a flight from HK to YVR in Business Class. My T/A had placed my Cathay Pacific Sapphire card down on the reservation by mistake and I called the airline up myself to ask if I should put in my CP Emerald number for a better waitlist priority. I was told that my CX Sapphire card had a better waitlist priority than the latter. Does anyone know about this?

I don't know, but frankly, I think it's fair that an airline place their own ffs above other oneworld ffs.

Two reasons:
* one is loyal to the airline first, and the alliance second
* all the sapphires & rubies out there wouldn't stand a chance...

It would be good to be up front about it though. I have suspected this is the same with Star Alliance so I don't think it is anything new. But both alliances make it sound like you get something more -- frankly misleading the flyers.

Notwithstanding our suspicions (me included) the oneworld rules supposedly say that members at the same level are to be treated equally, regardless of their affiliation with the marketing or operating carrier. When I get home, I'll see if I can dig up the specific rule.

While it seems to have worked out for Celestar340 in this case, imagine what you would think if it was the other way around. Showing favouritism in this way, especially putting a 2nd tier above a top tier, can only spell trouble for alliances, both Star and oneworld. (In my opinion, of course.)

Having said that however, my CP emerald status had on two recent ocaissions paid off. The first was in Feb 99, on a BA flight from LHR to YVR. I decided to go home two days early, but the plane was "grossly oversold" in economy. At first I was told there was no way I would get on the flight in First Class (as originally booked) and probably would not even get on in economy. But once the agent noticed my status, after calling up the res, everything changed. I did indeed fly that day, and in first class.

The second case was in Mar, on an AA flight from JAX to MIA. I wanted to take an earlier flight, that was once again oversold. I jumped over six previously ticketed standbys, including at least two AA Platinums/sapphire (at least according to their fancy bag tags) and took the only no show seat.

So far, so good.

Regards,

Ken Hamer


[This message has been edited by KenHamer (edited 04-10-99).]

I checked with AA to find out how this is supposed to work. The agreement they have is that wait list priority is determined by oneWorld status. Therefore if you are Emerald, regardless of ff program, you are on top of the list. Then comes Sapphire, then Ruby, then the rest.

AA said that they are honouring the arrangement but had heard that there are cases with other oneWorld carriers where this was not happening. They suggested complain loudly to a reservations supervisor of the airline you are waitlisted on and if that does not work call the reps on the desk of your ff program and have them speak directly to the other airlines reservations.

No guarantees but if enough pressure is applied we should see the rule being applied consistently.

And now I have to backtrack a little. On my flight from LHR to HAM last Friday, BA's attitude to my emerald status and economy ticket was: "Yeah...so?" I was not allowed to pre-book my seats, nor did I have access to the "preferred" seats, contrary to their oneworld policies. Perhaps BA is only concerned with oneworld members travelling in first or business. In any case, it seems they are not completely living up to their alliance committments.

Regards,

Ken Hamer

Here's another interesting tale of CX Gold (1w-Sapphire) vs CP Exec Plat (1w-Emerald).

Last Thursday, I was travelling SIN-BKK on an economy class ticket. I had prebooked my seat (bulkhead window) so I was not too concerned about showing up at the airport 2 hours prior departure. Besides I had given my CP Emerald card number at reservation.

I arrived at the check-in counter 10 minutes before the counter closed (CX imposes a 40 minute cutoff time for check-in). Gave then my ticket but didn't show my CP Exec Platinum card (since I thought they already have my number in their file). I was then given a sullen look and asked if I wanted an aisle seat. I said I had the seat requested already. No I didn't, they said. No window seats left. No aisle seats in front of plane...only last row. Is that okay? Middle seats only in front . (This was a 747-400 flight). Okay middle seat I mumbled. (I'll survive the 2 hr flight). I asked if they had my frequent flyer number on my reservation. Yes they said. So they know I'm emerald and yet still will only stick me in a middle seat! Then I took out my Cathay Pacific Gold card (1world-Sapphire) and asked that they change mileage credit to this card instead.

Suddenly, the response was...Oh, our apologies. In that case, we can upgrade you to Business Class where you will be more comfortable. Sorry no window seats on upper deck. Aisle okay? (But found out upon boarding that upper deck was half empty so I got my window seat in the end.)

Hmmmm. What does this tell you? CX Sapphire level worked better than CP's Emerald? Do checkin agents favour their own brand first and then others?

I personally would like to keep both cards. I have been a strong supporter of Cathay in the past and know that being a "Club" member does have its priveleges. I was very upset when they merged their operations and I realised that I now have to upkeep my Gold card to retain its benefits AND basically cut into my status points with CP since they both now have the same status accruing partners.

I will retain my CX Gold/Sapphire till end of Nov 2000 at current status levels, which means I don't have to do extra flights till 2000. AFter that I need to accumulate 60K to retain Gold, but that would also mean that I will not be accruing that that 60K into CP's programme. I can just about make it and retain CP's Exec Plat. But that would probably mean giving up AC SuperElite and be satisfied with Elite. Either that or give up Swissair TravelClub altogether.

Or stuff everything , give up flying and get a new job at a monastery. Flyer Talk visitors required.


[This message has been edited by Celestar340 (edited 04-18-99).]

I wouldn't be too sure that your 1W status transfers over or is visible automatically by any airline other than your "home", even if all the other 1W carriers properly record your number and get mileage credited.

In fact, oneworld status is available and visible to all oneworld carriers, and is now printed on all boarding passes. The upgrade privileges do not carry accross carriers (except CP and AA) but priority seating should.

Again, it sounds like at least CX and BA are not quite living up to the promises made by oneworld. (Can't speak to QF as I haven't flown them, and AA and CP are no problem for me, as a CP Exec Plat.) Smells like trouble to me.

Regards,

Ken Hamer

Ken - Maybe you can do some digging around and see who we can complain (and loudly) to about this non consistent treatment in oneworld. And yes you are right - after sneaking a peek at my travel agent's CRS, after inserting CP's number, a message comes back confirming emerald status. It's either EMD or EMR depending on airline. All oneworld carriers return this message with the sole exception of Cathay Pacific. But apparently, that message only shows up on their computer.

In the incident above, I know CX has my CPlus number because only Sapphires and Emeralds can have advance seat selection done. And the bulkhead seats (as I have requested with them) are reserved for their 'priveleged' members. But I was quite honestly, astonished at their very quick change of heart when I flashed my CX card. I should have shown both and asked them to take a pick!

a couple of comments about advance seat reservation with CX...

Celestar340: "only Sapphires and Emeralds can have advance seat selection done"...I think, according to the published oneworld benefits, all oneworld elite members, including Ruby's, have "preferred seating", which probably means advance seat reservation with CX...and not just Sapphires and Emeralds...

However, last week I was trying to make an advance seat reservation for one of my CX flights...they know I'm Marco Polo and I said I want an aisle seat...but then I was told the best available aisle seat is 61D...first row in economy is 30 and last row is 70, so 61 is really much closer to the back than to the front...and, given that it's a widebodies and has 4 aisle seats per row...I don't think there're so many Marco Polo's to fill all the aisle seats, given that they said in total 13% of CX's revenue are from Marco Polo members (who I think usually fly premium classes or pay full-fare, making the number of Marco Polo members less than 10% on an average flight, I guess)...

So, I asked the reservation agent, whether it's still true that only Marco Polo members (and oneworld elites) can have advance seat reservation...I was told, "well, in fact we are really not that strict in enforcing that rule, basically everyone who has ticketed can reserve any seat that is available"...I got the same reply from two reservation agents...one of them told me that the advantage of being a Marco Polo member is that we can reserve a seat even before we issue the ticket, when simply making a reservation...but, that doesn't seem to be what they've been advertising...and doesn't seem to be a very big difference for me...

I agree, that all people should be able to reserve seats in advance (because I've seen so many cases with CX before where family members couldn't sit together because they didn't reserve seats in advance)...but if they really advertise it as an "benefit" of being an elite member, they'd better enforce it...or just simply don't say it's only available to elites...

In fact, I'd like to see something more like what other airlines are doing, for example, reserving the first few rows in economy for elites and not filling the middle seats in those rows unless it's absolutely necessary...and opening up the rest for selection by others...

I think the CX people (res/the Club/airport) in HKG are far more confused of the benefits and privileges than everyone else!