DONE4 ex Africa DOH transit question
 

Hi All,

Am looking at doing a DONE4 and wonder if the following is allowed in terms of transits through DOH. As I cannot start an around the world itinerary with QR online I cannot check it there. The routing is as follows:

CPT-DOH-LHR-KEF-LHR-DOH-LAX-MIA-YYZ-JFK-DFW-SYD-BNE-MEL-DOH-CPT

Am I allowed the 3 transits through DOH as per the itinerary?

Thanks for any advice.

Yes - three times through DOH is allowed.

In general, there is no limit on the number of stopovers/transits at any point. (The only exception is the limit of two stopovers in the continent of origin).

Your itinerary is valid, and if the booking tool allowed the first flight to be on QR, then you could no doubt book it online. An option would be to add-on say DUR-CPT at the beginning and then it could be booked online (BA would be the first carrier); similarly you could change CPT-DOH to CPT-JNB-DOH.

Which airline are you planning to contact to get this ticketed?
It might be useful for you to read the first post in this thread http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/onewo...cpt-done5.html

Booking through a carrier might be an issue
The issue is that AA (and until recently BA) misinterprets the rule regarding the second visit to Europe/Middle East and would disallow your DOH-LHR and LHR-DOH flights "because inter-zone flights are not allowed". See from post#73 onwards in the thread.
Long story short, I finally got the BA fares team to change its interpretation and allow inter-zone flights.

Someone (:)) now needs to get AA to change its mind.
Please do let us know how you go if that someone is you

Are you sure? I don't think you can fly from the middle east to London/Europe if you are touching the middle east twice (if including South Africa or Mauritius). Here is the relevant rules section [4(e)3 part two] which does not allow the itinerary in question on any of these exceptions even when you, I think correctly, include the Middle East as within Europe:

For travel originating in Africa:

One of the following backtracks is permitted
3.2.1
Africa-Europe-RTW-Europe-Africa
One of the visits to Europe must be a transfer without stopover between Africa
and the previous/next continent. Travel may not include Mauritius/South Africa

3.2.2
Africa-Middle East-RTW-Middle East-Africa
One of the visits to Middle East must be a transfer without stopover between Africa and the previous/next continent.

3.2.3
Africa-Europe-RTW-Middle East-Africa or Africa-Middle East-RTW-Europe-Africa
Travel may not include any flown or surface sector Between Europe and Middle East

Thanks for the response both Pandaperth and Zoombee. I THINK (hope) that pandaperth is correct. The routing I am looking at is 3.2.2 - the restrictions seem to come into play when the flight to or from Africa involves BA on their London flight (at least when starting in South Africa). It seems through the rules if you use QR on both legs to and from Africa that there are no restrictions on the intra-Europe flights (other than BA's restriction of no more than 2 east/west flights). The term Europe / Middle East in the above rules, as far as I understand, refer only to the arrival and departure flight - for all flying within "Europe" the rules are then the same as for any other ticket.

Yes, I am sure.

Only 3.2.3 excludes flights between the Europe Zone and the Middle East Zone.

The on-line tool allows these flights
The BA fares team now allows them (it used not to, but I put the case to them that their interpretation was incorrect and they have now changed) - see the thread I linked to in my earlier post
AFAIK AA still misinterprets the rule. It did so back in January when I was trying to purchase my DONE5 from them, and I've heard no reports that they have changed

I've just spotted and scanned your valuable contributions to the "recent experiences booking an ex-CPT DONE5" thread. If I understand your stance correctly, wrt to:
CPT-DOH-LHR-KEF-LHR-DOH-LAX-MIA-YYZ-JFK-DFW-SYD-BNE-MEL-DOH-CPT

3.2.1 does not apply because it touches South Africa (o.e. swapping CPT for NBO would lead to a valid routing: NBO-DOH-LHR-KEF-LHR-DOH-LAX-MIA-YYZ-JFK-DFW-SYD-BNE-MEL-DOH-NBO)

3.2.3 does not apply as you note because it excludes flights between the Europe Zone and the Middle East Zone (if touching the Middle East twice).

The crunch item:
3.2.2 AFRICA-MIDDLE EAST-RTW-MIDDLE EAST-AFRICA
You are saying it is valid because "RTW" can include Europe, whereas I read it as only including other novel continents (i.e. excluding touching the rest of Europe). The rules are IMHO ambiguous. I wonder what the intent was and I also am not surprised ticketing is at best tricky.

Regardless of the interpretation of the Middle East routing rule, this is definitely a DONE5 thanks to this rule:

Ha Ha. Yes you are quite right. I was so focussed on the OP's question regarding multiple visits to Doha and then on the issue of inter-zone flights in Europe/Middle East that I didn't spot that.

Thanks Gardyloo - you are of course 100% correct, like Pandaperth, I got caught up in my own confusion re the Doha connections I overlooked such a basic element!

I think you are coming at this issue from the wrong angle zoombee

IF you want a RTW itinerary that:
- starts and ends in Africa, and
- makes two visits to Europe/Middle East
THEN you must decide which of the three possible backtracks you want to use

From the fare rules:The first column in the table describes the three possible departures from/returns to Africa – either both through the Europe zone, both through the Middle East zone, or one of each. It does nothing else; there are no restrictions hidden in its words - this is how the on-line tool works and how BA now interprets it (AFAIK, AA still misinterprets it - so someone, maybe the OP of this thread, needs to persuade AA to change its view;)).

The second column states the restrictions imposed for each possibility. These are the only restrictions imposed by having a second visit to Europe/Middle East.


So the OP to this thread decided he wanted to use the backtrack provisions of 3.2.2. My guess is that this was chosen because:
- he wanted the inter-zone flights DOH-LHR-DOH and so could not choose 3.2.3
- he wanted to begin and end in South Africa and so could not choose 3.2.1

I got 3.2.2 is what we're focused on. What was new to me is the idea that Africa-Middle East-RTW-Middle East-Africa can contain Middle East to Western Europe flights. I.e. that "RTW" doesn't mean "other continents" but instead means "the rest of your RTW that may or may not include the Europe/Middle East continent". The rules could be clearer on what is intended (allowing or not allowing that).

Don't forget the whole rule is about back-tracking between continents. Europe & Middle East are in the same continent as far as xONEx is concerned.

wijibintheair, did you ever get a trip together? If so, how?