CX and QF vs. CA and SQ
 

I have a booked itinerary for travel this weekend on Air China to Beijing and from there connecting to Singapore Airlines through Singapore to Christchurch, New Zealand.

Just checked availability on aa.com for the same destination and put an award on hold for travel on Cathay Pacific to Hong Kong and connecting in Sydney to Qantas to get to New Zealand.

Now, both awards are for travel in Business but if I go with OW carriers CX and QF, I get to spend 60,000 miles as opposed to sticking with *A and CA and SQ and the 75,000 miles required. The fees are pretty much identical, so given all of that I'd like to go ahead and travel on CX and QF and save myself some miles but since I never have, I need your advice.

I've heard great things about SQ but never flown. CX is very good based on what I read and QF apparently not what it used to be. I'd like to hear from people that have flown them and share their experiences. I went with Business because it's a 2-day journey from Europe to New Zealand and I want to be in a lie-flat seat.

Thanks to all who respond!

CX and QF vs. CA and SQ
 

On my AUS/NZ trip I flew Cathay from JFK and then Qantas in business. I thought the Cathay product four across was good as was IFE, service and food. Qantas reminded me of a US airline service/product at the time. I paid cash for coach flights between Sydney and Auckland and Dunedin on Air NZ which were good. No experience w/Singapore but my corporate travelers really like their product. have a great trip to two of my favorite countries

A lot depends on the aircraft you're flying --- there's huge variation in the hard product on SQ, CX and QF. What is your exact itinerary (i.e. flight numbers and scheduled equipment)?

Depending on your paid ticket flying patterns, I find that Oneworld miles are much harder to accumulate than Star Alliance miles (using Aadvantage and Mileage Plus as benchmarks), so in that case your 60k OW miles may be worth more than your 75k *A miles.

Having said that, the choice for me would vary much on the equipment on the routes you're looking at:

For your *A option, SQ has a couple of different configurations for PEK-SIN and also for SIN-AKL. Both legs can be on the 77W which would be a treat but require an overnight as the 77W flight from PEK comes in after the 77W flight to AKL leaves. CA also depends heavily on the route, if it's a 77W route then business class is quite ok, but CX would still be better.

For your OW option, I think you can't go wrong, equipment seems to be good on the longer flights but SYD-AKL will be nothing special as most are on a 738 with a 'domestic first' type business class.

Itineraries
 

Thanks all for the feedback! I do value my United miles more than my AA miles because it's easier to redeem on UA (in my opinion) and I have close to 200,000 miles on AA that I'm trying to use up. With that said, here are both itineraries:

Depart:
14:20
Sat., 29 Dec., 2012
Frankfurt, Germany (FRA)
Arrive:
07:00 +1 Day
Sun., 30 Dec., 2012
Beijing, People's Republic of China (PEK - Capital)
Flight Time:
9 hr 40 mn
Flight: CA966
Operated by Air China.
Aircraft: Boeing 777-300
Fare Class: Business (I)

Change Planes. Connect time in Beijing, People's Republic of China (PEK - Capital) is 1 hr 45 mn.

Depart:
08:45
Sun., 30 Dec., 2012
Beijing, People's Republic of China (PEK - Capital)
Arrive:
15:25
Sun., 30 Dec., 2012
Singapore, Singapore (SIN)
Flight Time:
6 hr 40 mn
Flight: SQ805
Operated by Singapore Airlines.
Aircraft: Boeing 777-200
Fare Class: Business (I)

Change Planes. Connect time in Singapore, Singapore (SIN) is 4 hr 20 mn.

Depart:
19:45
Sun., 30 Dec., 2012
Singapore, Singapore (SIN)
Arrive:
10:35 +1 Day
Mon., 31 Dec., 2012
Christchurch NZ (CHC)
Flight Time:
9 hr 50 mn
Flight: SQ297
Operated by Singapore Airlines.
Aircraft: Boeing 777-200
Fare Class: Business (I)

I'm concerned by the less than 2 hours layover in Beijing - according to reports I've read that may not be sufficient to transfer and I may miss my connection, which would be terrible as the SIN-CHC flight is only once a day and if I miss it, I'll have to fly on New Year's eve and that would defeat the point of me going there.

Here's the OW itinerary:

Flight CX 250
Operated by Cathay Pacific Departure: London (Heathrow)
Terminal 3
Date: Sat 29 Dec 12
Time: 18:05
Arrival: Hong Kong
Terminal 1
Date: Sun 30 Dec 12
Time: 13:45
Meal: Dinner / Breakfast
Total duration: 11h 40m
Aircraft type: Boeing 777-300ER

Flight CX 111
Operated by Cathay Pacific Departure: Hong Kong
Terminal 1
Date: Sun 30 Dec 12
Time: 19:00
Arrival: Sydney
Terminal 1
Date: Mon 31 Dec 12
Time: 07:15
Meal: Dinner / Breakfast
Total duration: 9h 15m
Aircraft type: Airbus Industrie A330-300

QF 47
Operated by Qantas
Sydney (SYD)
December 31, 2012 09:30 AM
Travel Time : 3 h 10 m
Cabin Class : Business
Wellington (WLG)
December 31, 2012 02:40 PM
Booking Code : U
Plane Type : 73H

If I've missed something, let me know!

I would try to spend as large a percentage of your trip on CX as possible. SQ is also nice, but the only reason you're able to see biz inventory with non-SQ miles is because all of your proposed segments happen to be on their worst plane. Plus, the OW routing will permit you to avoid connecting in Beijing (great city, lousy airport).

What is your actual destination city? Are you going to be having to race from Wellington to Christ Church on New Years Eve?

And are you currently located closer to London Heathrow or Frankfurt?

The CX flights look more desireable to me, but I don't envy a 5+ hour stop in Hong Kong. It's really not enough time to safely get downtown, and yet it's at least 2+ hours too long in the lounges. If you use that itinerary, be sure to get your boarding pass stamped when entering the first CX lounge so that you can wander around and try them all.....

I have flights before and after that I'm not too concerned about - in the OW itinerary, have a flight on Jetstar on the morning of the 1st to CHC, so no issue there and the other flights are LH to FRA or BA to LHR, which I've flown many times, so I don't need any advice on those - I know what to expect already. I don't plan on visiting HKG during this 5-hour layover. That would be on another visit. Just sitting in a lounge somewhere until the next flight. I have the same long layover on the *A itinerary - over 4 hours in SIN, so either way I'd have to endure a longer than usual stop but one cannot time all flights perfectly and I'll be flying business, so expect to be well rested that this won't be an issue.

your first itinerary is just weird - its all zig zag and mostly on not so good airlines-except SQ

go with cathay.

OW vs. *A
 

I agree - don't see the point in going all the way to China to traverse back to Singapore but unfortunately, for the dates I'm looking for, it appears to be the only option. I'm leaning towards OW but my CX segments keep canceling out - apparently, so close to departure, they only allow you to book but not hold. So, I may end up with *A if the availability goes away.

then, book!

I would avoid Air China and especially the tight connection in PEK.

As others have said, look carefully at the aircraft. Personally, I strongly object to business class configurations of 2-3-2 or even 2-4-2; 2-2-2 is (barely now) acceptable and 1-2-1 is preferred. Also, are you willing to accept angled lie-flat seats or do you want true flat beds?

I personally fly CA a lot and have no problem with them. Short connections in PEK have never been an issue for me and even with as little as a 1 hour connection I always still have time to stop in the lounge and grab a beer before the next flight. If you have or can get your next boarding pass (Intentional Transfer desk), PEK has a separate line for International Transfer immigration that dumps you back into the terminal pretty quickly. Rarely more than 3-4 people in line and if for some odd reason it's long and your connection is tight, just ask people in front of you to cut in, I've had people do it before when I was waiting and it didn't bother me at all. Now, if you can't get SQ boarding passes before immigration that's a problem and you'll have to go through the full process and into the departures hall of the main terminal, in that case 1h45 would concern me but not be a deal killer, I'm pretty confident I could make it myself.

Post #2 in this thread is pretty informative:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/china...ansit-pek.html

I'm not so excited about the SQ 772s, as another poster mentioned above, though it does let you fly directly to CHC and avoid Jetstar which is an airline I avoid at all costs.

Your OW itin with CX is nice, but the cross straight flight on the QF 738 and especially the Jetstar flight following it would make me think twice.

I would say much of a muchness.
CX111 is nice but SQ lets you go straight to CHC.

If you were AA ExPlat (*W Emerald) then I would say CX/QF due to the ability to go to both HKG and SYD First Lounges, but not so good as a AA Plat

On the OW flights you're spending more time on a superior airline, and flying a more direct route.

SQ and CX are pretty equal but with the * routing you've a long CA flight before you reach SQ. The QF flight on the other hand is only a short hop (although their 737s are truly horrible aircraft).

SQ 777-200s are retrofitted with new regional J class.
however - it's still not as good as the J in 77W.

CA J is new and is similar to UA BusinessFirst.

I'd say CX J on 77W is the best out of all of these.

Any itinerary that enables you to enjoy the Qantas First Class international lounge at SYD is by definition the only itinerary that you should pick!

In all seriousness though, avoid CA. Why go for a substandard product?

CA's 77Ws are hardly substandard. My main beef with the CA plan is the PEK connection (as I posted upthread).

I fail to see how more direct = the better option with the given itineraries? The OW itin the OP has saves only 40 minutes total travel time, but that doesn't take into account the extra Jetstar flight from WLG --> CHC. The OW itin is 31hrs35mins while the *A itin is 32hrs15mins... is CX C better than CA C (77W), sure a little... is it better than SQ 772... maybe a little... but then there's the 3 hour cross straight 738 flight to account for plus the hour of pure hell on JQ. Not to mention, any irregularities in SYD and the JQ flight is a separate ticket so would not be reaccommodated. If their OW itin was going direct into CHC then I'd say go for it and suck up the QF segment, but as it stands, I'd go the *A route.

OP mentioned concerns about missing the SQ flight in PEK due to the shortish connection, but if it were to happen, there are 2 other decent options to CHC the same day to be rebooked on:

Both have good availability in J at the moment.

If you're going to CHC take *A itinerary. The QF business product would be generously classed as domestic business on a DL mad dog and then hopping on JQ is basically economy.

The CA and SQ hard product are good and the benefit is the you don't have the herringbone layout. Connecting in PEK and SIN is pretty much a wash as the connection in HKG and SYD, plus you then have to connect in WLG.

I would definitely stick with the Star option. While CA in Y is no picnic, their J is superior to any US J product, and certainly the Qantas+JetStar. And PEK is a very quick connection, and don't know what people don't like. If you go through the transfer gate, you can get off of your plane and into the lounge within 20 minutes. And the lounge at SQ is quite nice, so you will be fine.

Agree it's not that bad if it's now snowing in PEK!

HKG no snow!

The new CA C isn't substandard at all. They give you PJs and nice duvets in C. The food is good if you like Chinese food, arguably better than CXs Chinese food. Western stuff isn't great, but better than stuff on UA.

I flew CX JFK-HKG biz a month ago and aside from few very minor peeves I thoroughly enjoyed it. The seat is flat and comfortable, while herringbone design assures that you don't need to see your neighbor unless you choose to.
Food (Asian) was excellent. Was favourite part was when I woke up in the middle of the flight and asked for a snack and they brought me a bowl of hot noodle soup (excellent!).

Issues were: my seat controls were finicky and didn't always work, they ran out of my first choice entrees (second choice was excellent), and they allowed all Marco Polo members to board at the same time as First Class and Business Class.

Thanks
 

Thanks to all for their input. I've chosen to stick with *A - I did make (yet another) change to my itinerary and got rid of the CA segment through PEK and flying on TG instead through BKK. This is just the beginning of a trip that will continue around Asia, so I'll try to fit in some CX/QF flights in there to experience their products as well. Thanks again to all for the responses. This thread can be now closed.

I'm pretty sure others will figure out useful ways to revive it because *A v. OW is a decision that many of us face. Take your case for example; were it not for the fact that you started this thread, I never would have even contemplated redeeming SQ long haul on 772s, but when you tell me that the alternative consists of flying a 738 for 3 hours and Jetstar during the last mile, my tune changes. For some reason, I really like TG biz, btw. While the seats don't hold a candle to CX, everything else is quite nice.

FYI - SQ 777-200ER aircraft are slowly being retrofitted with the 77W and A380 type Business Class seats. And some CX 77W aircraft still have the herringbone green Business Class seats. So just be aware with that.

Not true! All CX 77W has the new j class seats( the BA new F class seats). And these r deployed on most of the LHR flights.

I must disagree with you about CA's substandard product, I just flew with it from SYD-PEK on its 77W and got upgraded to business class, I must say the product is much better than QF and all of US carriers, not only business but also economy as well, very good seat pitch. Comparing with CX ones, not much difference either.

It is not that Hard to beat QF in business class- they seem to be living in 2005-even then Air NZ had 1-2-1 seating