Originally Posted by Traveloguy (Post 14374348)

Rubbish. BA has been largely profitable for many many years so your statement above is fiction to say the least.

Originally Posted by Traveloguy (Post 14374348)

The only thing key components missing now are a mainland Chinese, Brazillian and African (Comair is great, but is really just a ZA domestic carrier at the end of the day) carrier. Once those are added (a big 'if' sadly), any further additions will really only be playing at the edges.

Originally Posted by Flying Lawyer (Post 14375126)

True. As long as airline business was highly regulated and/or subsidised BA was profitable. However, is was not a problem to be profitable during those days. There was no need to manage an airline, you just had to operate an airline and had a license to print money.

However, at one day they had to start to manage an airline. And at the latest when starting their German adventure profitablity was no longer true. Could they manage in non (or not so much) regulated markets? No. There are only a few profitable airlines, BA is certainly not one of them.

Originally Posted by Flying Lawyer (Post 14375126)

True. As long as airline business was highly regulated and/or subsidised BA was profitable. However, is was not a problem to be profitable during those days. There was no need to manage an airline, you just had to operate an airline and had a license to print money.

However, at one day they had to start to manage an airline. And at the latest when starting their German adventure profitablity was no longer true. Could they manage in non (or not so much) regulated markets? No. There are only a few profitable airlines, BA is certainly not one of them.

Originally Posted by jerry a. laska (Post 14367344)

http://www.oneworld.com/ow/news/details?objectID=22473


http://www.4investors.de/php_fe/inde...ones&ID=178292

Originally Posted by SwissexLUG (Post 14371993)

The integration process will be a challenge but I don't think AB is a "classical" LCC like Ryanair or easyJet. AB already works more or less like a network carrier and this may help in the integration process.

Some features:
- AB allows connections and checks your bags through
- AB has a frequent flyer program with other airline partners (S7 among others)
- AB has two classes of services (long-haul)
- AB uses main airports (e.g. FRA,TXL instead of Hahn or Schönfeld), most of which already have a OW lounge
- AB's IT is connected to the ESTA, API databases for US bound passengers
- you can buy AB ticket through consolidators and/or online agencies (e.g. ebookers, expedia.de, etc.)
- you should be able to buy AB tickets through TAs as well (I'm not sure though)
- AB has a limited hub-and-spoke model in TXL & DUS (you can for instance fly from ZRH via DUS to MIA, your bag is checked through, you get boarding passes for the DUS-MIA leg in ZRH, the check-in agent at ZRH enters your API details for the US and checks whether you are ESTA compliant, etc.)


AB is more like B6 in the US which offers you connecting flights, booking via online agencies such as Expedia, etc. They are a low-fare network carrier.

Originally Posted by IC6A (Post 14371942)

I guess they want:
1>, OW Frequent flyers who may purchase its Business class ticket to support their revunue on long haul routes
2>, OW's network so AB can sell ticket in Germany to its members to anywhere in the world
3>, OW's structure that will make AB more competitive
4>, OW's leisure travelers who will use AB's European network to travel within EU. AB will have the potential to sell majority of the Europe Pass sectors for its frequency and network.
5>, OW's member airlines to work together with AB to make DUS a better hub with a future Berlin hub in the new Berlin airport which due to open in 2012. So when AB fully integrated into OW (possibly late 2011 early 2012) OW will have the new Berlin BBL airport (code BER) as one hub
6>, OW's international routes into Frankfurt so AB could benefits from the codeshare out of FRA.

Originally Posted by stimpy (Post 14373775)

As far as I can tell, this benefits only Germans

Originally Posted by DownUnderFlyer (Post 14376774)

I agree with all of this. However I don't think the advantage for AB is as strong as it might be for a carrier better connected at the classical hubs.

Originally Posted by CXBA (Post 14376063)

posts like yours are so unhinged and full of rubbish that seems to me AB accession to OW has irked many die hard supporters of the yellow-and-blue cancer :). Perhaps they were expecting emperor Mayrhuber to step in and snap in a moment this last fastidious home mosquito, although with the current disastrous situation of German banking system it is unclear where LH would get the easy cash they're used to. As for airline profitability, unlike you I am not sure if LH would be one of those without the continuous unwavering support of government, regulators (domestic and EU) and financial establishment.
Potentially unstable fellow travelers. One more reason for me to further avoid travel with LH. :D

Originally Posted by Traveloguy (Post 14375987)

BA was profitable up until the global financial collapse. You write as if it was decades ago and the company is still provided with support from the government. Let's not rewrite history to suit a little journalistic hypochondria!

Originally Posted by Flying Lawyer (Post 14378082)

Unwavering support of government? Sorry, but you obviously suffer from some kind of airline paranoia. :p

Originally Posted by stimpy (Post 14373775)

As far as I can tell, this benefits only Germans and the only business value to BA and Finnair is an attack on Lufthansa. Right?

Originally Posted by Shuttle (Post 14378158)

So, the repeated denial by the authorities for additional frequencies/access to new airports in Germany requested by Middle Eastern-based carriers is not due to tacit government support for a certain German-based airline?.

Originally Posted by Shuttle (Post 14378158)

Compare with the abundant growth of London and regional airports in the UK served by Emirates, Qatar, Ethihad...

Originally Posted by Shuttle (Post 14378158)

Then we have the example of Emirates, amongst others, being forced to raise prices by the German Government because they were undercutting Lufthansa:

Originally Posted by lhahne (Post 14378273)

I think Finnair wants AB to feed its large Asian operation as AB has Asian routes only to Thailand.

Originally Posted by DownUnderFlyer (Post 14376774)

AB has a lot of point to point connections outside Germany and with their hub in Palma is a nice option for that corner of the Mediterranean as well.

Originally Posted by stimpy (Post 14378338)

I am pretty ignorant of AB since they don't serve my airport (LYS). And since LH does serve LYS (to FRA, MUC and DUS), all my trips to Germany are with LH or by train. If AB were to add LYS as a destination, I would certainly be interested!

Originally Posted by Flying Lawyer (Post 14378505)

What they actually do it to fly into PMI (i) from the Portugese and Spanish mainland and the other Balearic Ilses and (ii) from plenty of German major and regional airports and some European (AMS, BSL, GRZ, VIE, INN, CPH, SZG, ZRH) airports and offer quite convenient connections between these regions via PMI in some cases three times a day. It always looks quite impressive to have a fleet of 20 or so read AB birds in the PMI evening sun.

Originally Posted by Flying Lawyer (Post 14375154)

And what they certainly need is a capable US addition. OW' AA is currently competing with *A's US, UA, CO and AC. The addition of AB brings OW back into the heart of Europe and this is certainly a move into the right direction, however they need a bit more to compete with giant LH.

Originally Posted by Flying Lawyer (Post 14378101)

So the global financial collapse for BA began in early 2007 when the share price went down dramatically?

Originally Posted by Shuttle (Post 14378560)

However, this article relating the topic:

http://www.centreforaviation.com/new...n-europe/page1

also makes slightly depressing reading for any OneWorld fanboys/girls, as one could conclude that OW is not trying to get Aer Lingus, which is currently running a beauty parade amongst the alliances, back into OW.

Originally Posted by stimpy (Post 14385577)

I don't know why any alliance would want EI in their group. I think Ireland will just remain a black hole of decent commercial aviation.

Originally Posted by edison (Post 14372044)

Excellent news! Now OW needs a decent African airline to fill the gaps ....

Originally Posted by moa999 (Post 14370069)

In my mind key features of LCC are missed by AB.
No inclusions - AB has meals and alcohol on some flights
Short haul - AB flies to the US, Asia
Single type - AB runs six different aircraft type
Single class - AB has Business class and XL seats
No lounges - AB has lounges

Originally Posted by daniel-andersson (Post 14406772)

And their "meal" in cabin, is sometimes not more than a muffin. One significant drawback with Airberlin is that the one-time-record is really bad. Being delayed for over two hours are not too unusual.

Originally Posted by daniel-andersson (Post 14406772)

Even if AB has a pretty big network, is a low cost airline. They usually have tickets for 29€ (where 28€ are taxes). And their "meal" in cabin, is sometimes not more than a muffin. One significant drawback with Airberlin is that the one-time-record is really bad. Being delayed for over two hours are not too unusual.

Originally Posted by Aisle Seat H (Post 14406943)

Ah, so you mean they are exactly the same as BA then?!?

On Euro flights (and on domestic of course) food is often just a cookie/biscuit/etc (only at meal times on Euro flights is there something more substantial), and I have lost count how many times on BA shorthaul I have been delayed for longer than the duration of the flight itself (I must have had an hour and a half or more delay 10 to 15 times on BA Euro and domestic flights in just the last two years [about 1 in 5 of all the flights I have taken with them, and about 1 in 3 of the shorthaul flights I have taken with them).

And on AA you have to pay for alcoholic drinks longhaul and even for food on domestic, while both are free on AB.

In fact on American Eagle AA flights they even have the temerity to charge $3 for the nuts!!! (See 3/4 of the way down the page - http://www.aa.com/i18n/travelInforma...ealService.jsp)

So in this regard they are as, or even less, 'low-cost' that a few established OW (so-called) 'full service' carriers!

So AB will fit in very nicely with their new partners! ;)

Originally Posted by daniel-andersson (Post 14406772)

Even if AB has a pretty big network, is a low cost airline. They usually have tickets for 29€ (where 28€ are taxes). And their "meal" in cabin, is sometimes not more than a muffin. One significant drawback with Airberlin is that the one-time-record is really bad. Being delayed for over two hours are not too unusual.

Originally Posted by Flying Lawyer (Post 14414522)

And LH usually has ticket for 88 Euro return (where 86 Euro are taxes).

Originally Posted by Sagy (Post 14436383)

Does anyone as an insight to possability of milage accural on OW airlines (yes I know they have a partnership with S7) being offered before AB becomes part of OW?

Thanks in advance

Originally Posted by daniel-andersson (Post 14406772)

Even if AB has a pretty big network, is a low cost airline. They usually have tickets for 29€ (where 28€ are taxes). And their "meal" in cabin, is sometimes not more than a muffin. One significant drawback with Airberlin is that the one-time-record is really bad. Being delayed for over two hours are not too unusual.

Originally Posted by Dan72 (Post 14442328)

To add to the points above on catering, the offering is not bad and comparable to many full service airlines these days. And compared to SK, I'm sure you'll agree it's much better.

Originally Posted by jahason (Post 14447105)

Not much better than airlines in Europe or Nth America. But catering in Asia is in a league above.

Originally Posted by giblet (Post 15625313)

Any idea when we'll be able to redeem AA miles for awards on Air Berlin?

Originally Posted by DownUnderFlyer (Post 15629161)

After they have joined oneworld which is expected to happen in the first half of 2012.

Originally Posted by DownUnderFlyer (Post 15629161)

After they have joined oneworld which is expected to happen in the first half of 2012.