Old Apr 17, 2021, 9:51 pm
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Trans Tasman Bubble (including the Pacific Islands)

Old Jun 11, 2020, 10:25 pm
  #31  
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Originally Posted by zoovet
That's true Thai Kiwi, and it is the reason why we won't have a Pacific bubble soon. An Australia bubble is better economically for NZ but is incompatible with a Pacific bubble as it will impose risks to the islands that they won't have without the Aussie bubble. We could cope with the occasional Covid outbreak, but the islands can't. A Pacific bubble will aid tourism in the islands but not much here.

I personally don't like it, but that's the way the cookie will probably crumble.
This just isn't true. Australia had already announced it wants a Pacific bubble with the TT bubble so why do people keep saying that when Australia joins us it would put the islands at risk, when this has already been given the green light?
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Old Jun 13, 2020, 12:38 am
  #32  
 
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Originally Posted by kiwifrequentflyer
This just isn't true. Australia had already announced it wants a Pacific bubble with the TT bubble so why do people keep saying that when Australia joins us it would put the islands at risk, when this has already been given the green light?
Green light? This just isnt true. Suggest you check your own facts before attacking others.
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Old Jun 13, 2020, 1:22 am
  #33  
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I didn't mean it as a personal attack, but sure I will back that up with facts then? https://www.rnz.co.nz/international/...-tasman-bubble

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/fiji-could-join-trans-tasman-bubble-australia-nz

It's not Pacific or Australia. Australia has clearly indicated they are keen to open the bubble to include Pacific Islands.

It's simply that it's coming AFTER the TT opening, not the other way around, and that still remains baffling to all on lookers who don't have inside knowledge about why this has been decided.

Last edited by kiwifrequentflyer; Jun 13, 2020 at 1:36 am
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Old Jun 13, 2020, 1:31 am
  #34  
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I have not seen any direct reports from Au Government (politicians) on a Au-NZ-SouPac bubble here in Australia. A topic I watch very closely
The Australia's High Commissioner to Fiji is low level. His job is to keep the locals happy.

Originally Posted by kiwifrequentflyer
I didn't mean it as a personal attack, but sure I will back that up with facts then? https://www.rnz.co.nz/international/...-tasman-bubble

It's not Pacific or Australia. Australia has clearly indicated they are keen to open the bubble to include Pacific Islands.
Australia's High Commissioner to Fiji, John Feakes, said no timeline had been set as Canberra and Wellington had yet to finalise a bilateral agreement.But he said Australia wanted Fiji in its bubble alongside New Zealand.
<snip>
As you're probably aware, there are active Coronavirus cases in Australia but once the work is done to open up the Trans-Tasman bubble, we will look very quickly at including Fiji in that as well."
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Old Jun 13, 2020, 1:35 am
  #35  
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I think it's very clear from numerous discussions that Australia is planning to include the Pacific in the bubble once its sorted it with NZ. But if people disagree with me, that's fine, we will see in six months time if these reports and plans being made by Australian Pacific Island government representatives and groups were true or just fantasy on their behalf. But I can't imagine anyone listening to this and thinking that Australia does not plan on a Pacific Bubble:
https://www.lowyinstitute.org/the-interpreter/covidcast-episode-11-coronavirus-and-australia-s-pacific-relations

Last edited by kiwifrequentflyer; Jun 13, 2020 at 1:51 am
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Old Jun 13, 2020, 3:15 am
  #36  
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Originally Posted by kiwifrequentflyer
.It's simply that it's coming AFTER the TT opening, not the other way around, and that still remains baffling to all on lookers who don't have inside knowledge about why this has been decided.
I’n not baffled, except that you seem to consider your bafflement is shared by ‘all onlookers’ ...

That, alone, is baffling to me. Others may be similarly baffled, but I cannot comment on their behalf.
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Old Jun 13, 2020, 4:00 am
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Originally Posted by Thai-Kiwi
In not baffled, except that you seem to consider your bafflement is shared by all onlookers ...

That, alone, is baffling to me. Others may be similarly baffled, but I cannot comment on their behalf.
I think theres only one baffled poster here on that subject. Separately though is my own bafflement over the misleading statement that a green light had been given when it patently has not.
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Old Jun 13, 2020, 4:36 am
  #38  
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Right. I am the only person baffled ​​​​​​
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/a...ectid=12339050
https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/13...vid-free-zone/
​​​​​​https://i.stuff.co.nz/travel/news/30...le-expert-says
​​​​​​
Let's just add more sources to what I have already posted in this thread in this for good measure for those of you baffled as to why I think Australia has decided on a Pacific Bubble and why I said it has been "green lit": https://www.sbs.com.au/news/australians-could-soon-travel-to-pacific-nations-as-government-flags-travel-bubble-expansion

​​​​​​""Minister for the Pacific Alex Hawke said on Thursday that Pacific nations would be the next to be added to the travel bubble.

"Pacific countries have done an outstanding job of getting ready for COVID and limiting the spread of it in the Pacific, and many of them are still in lockdown," he said on Thursday.

"Prime Minister Morrison and Prime Minister Ardern said once the trans-Tasman bubble is up and running, three to four weeks after, we'll start looking at the Pacific bubble, which is a relatively quick time frame, in my view.""

Are we still "baffled" by my choice of wording for it has been "given the green light"?

"We absolutely support the concept of a Pacific travel bubble" https://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/world/govt-absolutely-supports-pacific-islands-travel-bubble/video/1d7d398e9518993db52cb4e68536f64b
​​
https://www.rnz.co.nz/international/pacific-news/417051/australia-backs-inclusion-of-fiji-in-trans-tasman-bubble
https://www.lowyinstitute.org/the-interpreter/covidcast-episode-11-coronavirus-and-australia-s-pacific-relations

Last edited by kiwifrequentflyer; Jun 13, 2020 at 5:33 am
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Old Jun 13, 2020, 1:32 pm
  #39  
 
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Nice to know you believe everything that's written in the newspapers. As far as I can tell the bubble with australia is being pushed by those associated with the travel industry plus some business interests. Eventually the bubble will exist but hopefully not for a while.
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Old Jun 13, 2020, 1:56 pm
  #40  
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Originally Posted by zoovet
Nice to know you believe everything that's written in the newspapers. As far as I can tell the bubble with australia is being pushed by those associated with the travel industry plus some business interests. Eventually the bubble will exist but hopefully not for a while.
Nice to know you didn't actually read the articles or watch the interviews before condescendingly making that reply.

Literally the Australian Pacific Island representative goes on record announcing this, blatantly saying the government (not just himself) supports this and will seek a Pacific Island bubble, and gives details and a rough time line they are thinking of, but no, "nice to know you believe everything in newspapers"

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/wo...2cb4e68536f64b

"We absolutely support the concept of a Pacific Travel bubble and working out arrangements with various Pacific countries to enable the resumption of travel for tourism and various other purposes." - tiny snippet with interview from Minister of International Development & Pacific Islands

But no. "Can't believe everything you read in newspapers!"

The bubble is happening. Regardless of how many people here are still unconvinced. And yes you are right: its happening after the TT bubble. That is literally the issue of contention that lead to the snarky posts. Why. I said it's not because NZ has to choose between the Pacific vs Australia, because AUS plans to extend the bubble, others mocked me and said Australia has not said they plan up open the bubble at all.
​​​
There has actually been slightly more clarity given on these past few days on why from Australias side, and it appears to be a safety issue, not a Pacific vs. Australia issue. They want to test the TT border first before expanding it to vulnerable nations. Other experts disagree there is a safety issue, so now that is being discussed.
​​

Last edited by kiwifrequentflyer; Jun 13, 2020 at 3:06 pm
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Old Jun 13, 2020, 3:19 pm
  #41  
 
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Originally Posted by kiwifrequentflyer
Right. I am the only person baffled ​​​​​​
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/a...ectid=12339050
https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/13...vid-free-zone/
​​​​​​https://i.stuff.co.nz/travel/news/30...le-expert-says
​​​​​​
Let's just add more sources to what I have already posted in this thread in this for good measure for those of you baffled as to why I think Australia has decided on a Pacific Bubble and why I said it has been "green lit": https://www.sbs.com.au/news/australi...bble-expansion

​​​​​​""Minister for the Pacific Alex Hawke said on Thursday that Pacific nations would be the next to be added to the travel bubble.

"Pacific countries have done an outstanding job of getting ready for COVID and limiting the spread of it in the Pacific, and many of them are still in lockdown," he said on Thursday.

"Prime Minister Morrison and Prime Minister Ardern said once the trans-Tasman bubble is up and running, three to four weeks after, we'll start looking at the Pacific bubble, which is a relatively quick time frame, in my view.""

Are we still "baffled" by my choice of wording for it has been "given the green light"?

"We absolutely support the concept of a Pacific travel bubble" https://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/wo...2cb4e68536f64b
​​
https://www.rnz.co.nz/international/...-tasman-bubble
https://www.lowyinstitute.org/the-in...ific-relations
Thanks for clarifying. Not baffled any more. You have successfully proven that no green light has been given, based on the information you have provided.
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Old Jun 13, 2020, 3:40 pm
  #42  
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So I would love to know: what is your definition of a green light?

The government minister responsible for it directly states it will have a Pacific Bubble after the TT bubble and is working it out right now, to go live shortly after the TT bubble.

That isn't a "green light"

What would constitute a "green light" for you?

​​​​​I think at this point here, whether this meets your stringent standards of what constitutes a "green light" that you would mock my use of it, that the chances of this going ahead, are extremely likely, and whether it constitutes your stringent definition of "green light", the Australian government has shown a very very very very strong interest in moving forward with it, and shown very strong intentions of doing it.

But whatever your answer is, I don't care, I am out of this conversation.
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Last edited by kiwifrequentflyer; Jun 13, 2020 at 3:48 pm
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Old Jun 13, 2020, 4:31 pm
  #43  
 
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Originally Posted by kiwifrequentflyer
So I would love to know: what is your definition of a green light?

The government minister responsible for it directly states it will have a Pacific Bubble after the TT bubble and is working it out right now, to go live shortly after the TT bubble.

That isn't a "green light"

What would constitute a "green light" for you?

​​​​​I think at this point here, whether this meets your stringent standards of what constitutes a "green light" that you would mock my use of it, that the chances of this going ahead, are extremely likely, and whether it constitutes your stringent definition of "green light", the Australian government has shown a very very very very strong interest in moving forward with it, and shown very strong intentions of doing it.

But whatever your answer is, I don't care, I am out of this conversation.
Yes I would climb out of the hole now before it gets too deep. Good decision.
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Old Jun 14, 2020, 5:41 pm
  #44  
 
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I know the OP has gone - but to me this sums up the problems with a Pacific bubble

A NZ-pacific bubble is probably very safe; but if Australia (at the moment) is included it will not be risk free for the Pacific

Who would carry the cost if something goes wrong in the Pacific?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/news/...-happening-now
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Old Jun 14, 2020, 6:26 pm
  #45  
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Originally Posted by jeffrocowboy
I know the OP has gone - but to me this sums up the problems with a Pacific bubble

A NZ-pacific bubble is probably very safe; but if Australia (at the moment) is included it will not be risk free for the Pacific

Who would carry the cost if something goes wrong in the Pacific?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/news/...-happening-now
No I am not gone from the thread, I am just not going to continue arguing and continue the conversation over whether Australia has announced their support and plans for it or not. Others can in this thread but I won't. I am happy to talk about other things though.

And yes I agree. Since my previous comments, more interviews with ministers in both Australia and NZ have come to light that have shed more clarity on the situation.

Basically it's that: Australia still has cases (and in theory, NZ could also become reinfected by international arrivals too), and just a single case poses a huge health risk to a small Pacific Island country, and neither AUS/NZ wants to be responsible for that - or the resources that would then have to be used by us to assist in fixing it.

If we infect each other it is less of a big deal because we have bigger health care systems and track/tracing capability to deal with it.
​​​​​
A lot of people from the Pacific Islands have disagreed with the risk outweighing the reward, but I also absolutely understand the governments position too.

So honestly, in my personal, non expert opinion, I think it's a fair balance what the Australian Pacific Islands minister said was being proposed. Open up TT border, let us test it and see if cases develop, and if it remains safe, expand the bubble
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