thegreypatch

Hiya, im new to forum but thought might be a good place to start.

I will explain the situation and any advice would be grateful thanks.

I am curretnly on s HWV in Perth living with my girlfriend and her mum and step dad. I am insured on his car and got a speeding fine through today for $700. I was gob-smacked. I knew at the time of the camera flash i was speeding and it was too late but there was no way i was doing exactly 30Km/h over the 60km/h speed limit. If i was doing 89 i would be paying $300 instead of the massive $700 which as a student just been here 12 weeks im struggling to pay.. is there any way of fighting this case?..

i am going to write telling them that in 550m from a stop start in a 1.2 car is hard to reach 90 especially without screaching the car! i have a very clean UK license and have not yet changed my license to a AUS one..

anyone any ideas thanks you very much

thegreypatch

Anyone? Any info would help massively! I read the other posts on the forum of people not paying it and saying dont worry but i really dont know what to do and am seriously shockd at the 30km/h alledged speed offence.

bensyd

Right a letter to them and explain your case.

IMOA

It's not difficult at all to get a car like that to 90kmh in 550 metres and in your case you cannot simply ignore the fine. You have a choice of a letter or court but you really need to come up with a much better defense/excuse than what you have written so far.

BearX220

Anyone who's driven much in Australia knows the speed limits are to be taken seriously. Everyone knows the fines are real and dramatic. If you're on a dual carriageway doing 10kph over the limit you stand out like a rose in the snow. 30kph over? You're asking for it. You could probably beg a mercy plea on a minor first offense but 30kph over... wow. Being a starving student is no defense.

AdMEL

As you've mentioned the car is your step dad's and you were caught by a speed camera, your step dad would have received the fine as the registered owner of the car. I doubt he would be happy to accept the fine and 5 demerit points, so he will need to nominate you as the driver, then fine will be reissued to you.

If I were you, I wouldn't just not pay the fine without first seeking legal advice, as the outstanding fine may affect your visa and your ability to come back into Australia.

Note that it likely you were going faster than the 90 you were booked at, as 2-3 km is usually taken off to allow for radar tolerance.

Some states allow you to replace a fine with a warning, if you haven't been caught speeding in the last 2-3 years. Not sure about WA, or whether this would apply to someone with a foreign licence. In any event, it's unlikely you'll be let off such a large speeding fine.

Are you claiming that the camera was inaccurate?

Although this is possible, if you're going to challenge the fine for this or any other reason, you should get legal advice.

If you haven't already, get a copy of the photo to check things such as other cars in the frame, etc.

One final - you're lucky this was not in Victoria on a Victorian licence! It would have resulted in automatic suspension of your licence for at least a month and possibly the car being impounded for a few days!

number_6

Which states are those? Does Victoria do this, for example? Quaint system (I had presumed the large fines for small speeding infractions -- as little as 5 km which is only 3mph) were a revenue-raising source, rather than the claimed "saving lives" (bit hard to see how crashing at 100 km/h is much safer than at 104km/h).

As an aside, just noticed that Google Ads is serving up a photo of an Australian road accident fatality victim -- talk about targetted marketing!!!!!

To the OP: you probably have a reasonable chance of getting the offence reduced by 1km/h, but there is also a chance of additional costs being added to the fine (so it may wind up costing more, but with fewer demerit points). I've rarely heard of anyone being successful in getting the fine amount reduced. Good luck, and now you know why so few cars speed in Australia compared to some other countries!

AdMEL

As a frequent visitor to Melbourne, you would know that Victoria is widely regarded as the most aggressive with regard to speed cameras.

There are now a couple of ironies to this:

1. Victoria does indeed allow you to receive a warning in lieu of a fine and demerit point. This only applies if you receive a small speeding camera fine (my understanding is less than 10km over the limit and 1 demerit point), have no demerit points and haven't received a fine in the last 2 or 3 years. You write a letter to Civic Compliance Victoria acknowledging that you were/may have been speeding and requesting a warning based on past driving history. You cannot argue that you weren't speeding. A few friends and family have done this on my advice and have indeed had the fine revoked.

2. During holiday periods (school holidays, Christmas, Easter, long weekends, etc), many states are now significantly more aggressive than Victoria. NSW (and possibly other states) have double demerit points, so you can lose your licence in one go! In NSW during double demerit point periods, I understand the OP would have accrued 12 demerit points! At Easter this year, a mate and I drove from Melbourne to Barossa for the Easter break - we saw very few police and police speed cameras whilst in Victoria (2 or 3 in the fours driving to the border), but as soon as we crossed the border into South Australia, there were police and speed cameras everywhere! I thought I got caught by a speed camera coming into a country town on the way there and my mate got pulled over and fined on the way back. In this instance, we were glad to get back into Victoria!

I have to disagree with your comments to the OP that there may be a reasonable chance of getting the offence reduced by 1km/h. As I mentioned previously, it is likely that the amount has already been reduced by 2-3km to allow for radar tolerance (although I am not sure whether they do that in WA). If it has, I'd say there's no chance of getting it reduced by a further 1km. Also, as the OP is on a UK licence, demerit points are probably not an issue, as I doubt they'd be applied to the UK licence. The fine, however, is the big issue!

As an aside, I've heard that in some states in the US, if you are caught speeding as a foreigner, you can be jailed, especially if you don't pay the fine immediately. Is this true? The flip side of this is that in most places, police don't worry you if you're driving 5-10mph over the limit. Again, is this true? I used 5-10mph tolerance last year.

number_6

It varies tremendously by jursidiction. At the extremes, everything you say is true; there are some small towns which get >50% of their revenue from traffic fines (and spend >50% of their revenue on police and fine collection, curiously enough), and those will have a police take you to an on-call Justice of the Peace who will try your case on the spot and require payment in cash (or posting a bond, for example by AAA which is RACV/NRMA affiliate), with jail as the alternative. This probably happens in >0.01% of speeding tickets, but 100% at those locations. As for toleration for speeding, allowing 10mph (16kph) over the speed limit is widespread, and there are some states which generally allow up to 30mph over the speed limit for in-state license plates, conditions warranted. That said, I've been ticketed for 56mph in 55 zone in NJ, as I had NY state plates. The "wild west" allows the higher speed limits and loosely enforces them (Montana, Wyoming, Texas to a lesser extent, Arizona and New Mexico are spotty); California is pretty lenient outside of cities as long as you are driving safely at speed (CHP will score your driving before deciding to do a stop).

In most "normal" cities you'd be very unlucky to be ticketed for 5mph over the limit (and everyone is driving 10mph over, conditions allowing). Quite a different system from Australia for the most part.

AdMEL

Thanks for the insight.

Can you name some of the small towns where they will try you on the spot? Excuse my ignorance, but how do you post a bond by AAA? I would have thought credit card payment would have been easier!

That's the first I've heard of tolerance for 30 mph over the limit and also the first I've heard of a higher tolerance for in-states plates! Hard to get around that when in a rental car! I rented a Camaro with Californian plates last year, but drove through half a dozen states.

Interesting flip side you mentioned - I've never heard of anyone being booked for 1.6kph (1mph) over the limit in Australia - my understanding is that in most states you won't get booked until you are 3kph over the limit (by a speed camera - don't think police will pull you over unless you are at least 5km over the limit), however there has been talk of some states reducing the tolerance to zero.

Also interesting that CHP will score your driving before pulling you over. Am I correct in assuming that if your doing say 15mph or 20mph over the limit on the interstate without weaving, tailgating or doing anything else silly, they won't pull you over?

Another contrast in Australia is the anti-hoon laws they have in some states, including Victoria, which you may be aware of. Exceeding the speed limit by 45 kph (amongst other offences) results in your car being impounded for 30 days and repeat offenders have their cars crushed.

chimphappyhour

Good info to know about driving in Australia.

As far as info about driving here in the US, I have never heard mention of in state versus out of state plates making a difference in getting pulled over. I've also never heard of leniency of up to 30mph before either. (In some states, I suspect that will actually get your license pulled and possible jail time, if I remember right.) It used to be common in most places for there to be a 5mph tolerance to account for various inaccuracies that might occur in the clocking process. Ultimately though, it comes down to what the officer knows what they can get. They won't waste their time pulling over someone doing 5-10 over when they know they will easily have someone doing 20 over coming along really soon. I know that is the case here in Kansas City as I've easily blown by mounted units shooting laser while I was doing 10 over and they didn't even blink.

That said, all municipalities are using their police force to help fill draining coffers, not just the small ones. Some places have even reduced their tolerance overage to help make more revenue. Make no mistake though, the large cities are stepping up too. You just have better odds there.

One thing that has been a blessing and a curse here is the use of laser. It sucks because you can't really spot it early with a detector like you can with radar. If your detector goes off, you've probably been hit. It's great though because the officers need to be very accurate with their aim. They only get a couple of targets on your car to bounce the beam off of unlike radar. So guess what? I never see the locals out shooting laser at night or in inclement weather. Also, this means they can't roll with laser either.

The highway patrols will roll instant on radar though. The officer flicks two switches that reside next to each other. One turns the radar on and the second locks the reading. It happens as fast as the officer can tap his two fingers. It's almost as tough to detect as laser, almost.

So anymore, I don't bother with a detector. Best detector in any case is someone faster than you and to watch all traffic ahead of you or heading towards you. Human speed enforcement can only handle so much at one time. Fortunately, speed cameras aren't as common here.

serfty

In Victoria - if a driver has had a "clean record" in relation to traffic infringements and the speeding offence was not greater than a predefined margin of 10kph (13kph with the Alleged Speed calculation) over the limit they can request to have the infringement notice withdrawn and an official warning issued.

http://www.police.vic.gov.au/content...ument_ID=10369 (http://www.police.vic.gov.au/content...ument_ID=10367)

http://www.sdro.nsw.gov.au/lib/docs/...sdr_pn_015.pdf

BearX220

I am ultra-cautious about Australian speed limits. I learned quickly from watching the traffic flow around me. They aren't kidding.

As for US limits...

I've near heard of license plate origin making a difference either. They paint you before they can ID your plate, as a rule. Maybe it's an east coast thing.

You better believe they are doing more speed enforcement here to prop up municipal revenues. I've had more speeding tickets in the last three years than in the prior 15. And there's much more sneaky, pointless speed-trapping, like setting up behind a tree to do people for 36mph in a 30mph zone, or running big traps on the interstate highways at a city limit, where the allowed speed may drop suddenly from 70mph to 60, catching drivers unawares.

Some jurisdictions near me have automatic cameras fitted to the signals at big intersections. They shorten the yellow / caution phase by a few seconds, then send anyone who technically "runs the red" a bill for $300 or so. This has not made anyone safer but rather increased rear-end collisions as drivers who have caught on come to a screeching halt the moment green turns to yellow.

On freeways you may still get 5 to 10mph grace, especially if traffic flow is heavy, but not always; I got done for 73 in a 70 zone a couple of months ago north of Seattle, the kind of infraction they never used to bother with.

Out in the middle of nowhere, here in the western US, we have great, sweeping, lightly trafficked roads built for speed... with everyone beetling along now at 70 or 75mph. I used to take my Mini Cooper over to Yakima and sneak her up to 100 or 110 on the isolated stretches. Not these days.

shillard

In my experience cops in the US are pretty relaxed about foreigners speeding, so long as you:

1) Aren't driving like a fool (ducking & weaving, tailgating, overtaking dangerously, speeding in poor weather, etc).

2) Are polite and respectful (and immediately admit guilt) when pulled over.


I've been done in California (several times), Illinois and Nevada. Never been fined, despite being 10-20mph over the posted limit each time.

Of course in SE Asia it's much easier (but frequently more expensive) to make traffic matters go away...

behuman

Welcome to FT anyway.

The only way to fight the case is against yourself. Pay up and be happy that you are still allowed to drive in Australia after a such big and unacceptable offence. How many lives were put potentially at risk by your behaviour?

In most European countries the fine would hve been bigger and you would been banned from driving.

Take this for a lesson and become a polite and considerate driver. Speed limits rightly apply to everybody.