NYC-BKK award in business question
Sep 7, 2009, 4:26 pm
#16
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: HHQ
Programs: AA-2MM Lifetime Platinum
Posts: 772
Something has changed in the last couple of weeks. Saver business class to Bangkok from the USA used to be available on Korean Air at 120K r/t with just a little flexibility and if you booked at least three or so months in advance.
Now, nothing is available except in coach. It looks like Delta has enhanced this option to BKK now.
Now, nothing is available except in coach. It looks like Delta has enhanced this option to BKK now.
Sep 7, 2009, 4:32 pm
#17
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: LAX, PSP
Programs: SPG & CO Plat.
Posts: 3,143
From SIN, use Zuji to get Cathay b-class for >$300. (though I heard a rumor that is going away.)
Cheers (from BKK),
FMINYC.
Sep 8, 2009, 5:41 am
#19
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Chicago
Programs: UA 1K, HH Diamond
Posts: 2,055
Something has changed in the last couple of weeks. Saver business class to Bangkok from the USA used to be available on Korean Air at 120K r/t with just a little flexibility and if you booked at least three or so months in advance.
Now, nothing is available except in coach. It looks like Delta has enhanced this option to BKK now.
Now, nothing is available except in coach. It looks like Delta has enhanced this option to BKK now.
Sep 8, 2009, 5:56 am
#20
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Chicago
Programs: UA 1K, HH Diamond
Posts: 2,055
The NWA agent said that CO availability I see on Continental website will never match what I see on NWA.com. On CO I am seeing multipe awards in Feb/March from EWR-PVG in business for 2 people at 120k...and not one date I check is available on NWA.com! The agent said its because those seats are for CO members, not NW. But even more frustrating is that CO.com shows a lot of Low level business seats from PVG-DTW-EWR on Dl/NW metal that is not available on delta.com or NWA.com!
Sep 8, 2009, 7:03 am
#21
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Chicago
Programs: UA 1K, HH Diamond
Posts: 2,055
welcome to the new worldperks program...
There are several tricks that I have used over the years, with less effectiveness recently.
You may be forced to route NYC-HNL-NRT-BKK, as the HNL-NRT flight is the easiest one to find 2 seats and it's definitely available PerkSaver for some of your dates. That is a pain in the *ss for sure, but you might be able to stagger your flight into HNL and your departure to NRT so that you have 20 hours to stay at a hotel on the beach.
The one trick that I'll share that used to work on pretty much any day is to buy a ticket to HNL and you can get perkpass award tickets from there (all the way to BKK in fact) for 140k per ticket. It used to be only 120k for perkpass on this route, before DL came along, now even 140k isnt the upper limit, but on many days the 140k level can be found. Often you can find PP one way (70k) and PS the other (35k), so only 105k per ticket (again HNL-BKK, you pay to get to HNL and back to NYC). I know you are on the east coast, so NYC-HNL is not a cheap flight (for us on the west coast, this can be had for low to mid $300s). But that is a pretty easy option, not as good as 120k WBC from start to finish.
The other option that works well is LAX-NRT, but for 2 people, that might still be tough (but a quick search reveals this works at least one way during the months you seek to travel).
The other thing you need to understand is that NW's "journey logic" (actually there is not too much logic involved) means that you have to look at married segments (e.g., LAX-SIN, instead of looking at LAX-NRT and NRT-SIN individually). What this means is that each of the feeder flights into NRT form the US is allocated a certain number of seats on the connecting flights onward to Asia. The more popular transpacs eat up those seats quickly. But HNL and LAX tend to have more of those "onward" seats left, this is true for awards too. That logic can be broken, however, with a stopover in NRT (and continuation on NW another day) or a connection to a partner airline.
To beat journey logic, you really need to start with the transpac and be willing to pay some change fees, not really the end of the world if you think about spending $150 for several changes to get such an expensive ticket.
Good luck, snagging 2 awards is always a challenge, but with a mix of the above strategies it is doable...
There are several tricks that I have used over the years, with less effectiveness recently.
You may be forced to route NYC-HNL-NRT-BKK, as the HNL-NRT flight is the easiest one to find 2 seats and it's definitely available PerkSaver for some of your dates. That is a pain in the *ss for sure, but you might be able to stagger your flight into HNL and your departure to NRT so that you have 20 hours to stay at a hotel on the beach.
The one trick that I'll share that used to work on pretty much any day is to buy a ticket to HNL and you can get perkpass award tickets from there (all the way to BKK in fact) for 140k per ticket. It used to be only 120k for perkpass on this route, before DL came along, now even 140k isnt the upper limit, but on many days the 140k level can be found. Often you can find PP one way (70k) and PS the other (35k), so only 105k per ticket (again HNL-BKK, you pay to get to HNL and back to NYC). I know you are on the east coast, so NYC-HNL is not a cheap flight (for us on the west coast, this can be had for low to mid $300s). But that is a pretty easy option, not as good as 120k WBC from start to finish.
The other option that works well is LAX-NRT, but for 2 people, that might still be tough (but a quick search reveals this works at least one way during the months you seek to travel).
The other thing you need to understand is that NW's "journey logic" (actually there is not too much logic involved) means that you have to look at married segments (e.g., LAX-SIN, instead of looking at LAX-NRT and NRT-SIN individually). What this means is that each of the feeder flights into NRT form the US is allocated a certain number of seats on the connecting flights onward to Asia. The more popular transpacs eat up those seats quickly. But HNL and LAX tend to have more of those "onward" seats left, this is true for awards too. That logic can be broken, however, with a stopover in NRT (and continuation on NW another day) or a connection to a partner airline.
To beat journey logic, you really need to start with the transpac and be willing to pay some change fees, not really the end of the world if you think about spending $150 for several changes to get such an expensive ticket.
Good luck, snagging 2 awards is always a challenge, but with a mix of the above strategies it is doable...
beyond frustrating.I then get a very helpful agent who was able to scan all of Jan/Feb/March very quickly and verified that Korea Air JFK-ICN-BKK has zero availability for 2 people in business and JFK-NRT-BKK on NW/DL also has zero availability for all 3 months. She said I should check all routings every day until I find what I want....which I continue to do so.
Sep 8, 2009, 4:30 pm
#22
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Manhattan Beach, California
Programs: BMI Diamond Club Gold forever
Posts: 6,367
We should probably start a new thread on this to compare notes, but not only has KE availability in premium cabins gone to absolutely nothing, so have a few other partners that used to be very easy to find premium awards. In particular, I am talking about AF thru CDG to india and IT between LHR and india. Both of these partners now show no availability. In the past, I had frequently used KE, IT and AF with great results when I didnt need my wife to be on NW metal with me. The AF stuff is particularly hard to stomach, as these are routes where they are showing J9C9 etc and selling $3200 discounted business class seats. It's not as if AF isnt open to a partner booking some of these seats with mileage awards.
My complaints aren't just "it's tougher to find premium awards" but rather that premium awards on these partners have completely disappeared in the last month or so. Welcome to DL.
My complaints aren't just "it's tougher to find premium awards" but rather that premium awards on these partners have completely disappeared in the last month or so. Welcome to DL.
Sep 8, 2009, 5:30 pm
#23
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Portland, OR
Programs: DL MM Plat, PC&HH Gold
Posts: 2,602
This is all part of the setup we've been expecting. Saver is going the way of the dodo bird. These will all be restored at the medium level or higher on DL.
Sep 8, 2009, 5:48 pm
#24
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: New York
Programs: Marriott Bonvoy Lifetime Titanium, Delta Skymiles Platinum
Posts: 650
Saver has been extremely difficult for years, before the merger. For years I would buy a coach ticket and use miles to upgrade. That has also become extremely difficult the past couple of years. I almost wish that DL would restore more availability even at a higher miles cost. The way it is now and has been for a while is really frustrating.
Sep 8, 2009, 8:26 pm
#25
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 238
Have you tried calling the NW Elite line? I do most of my award searches online too, but have found many agents can pretty quickly tell you options on partner airlines that don't necessarily show up online. There's no charge to have them look for availability -- and if they find great flight options, it's worth the fee to get the flights ticketed if you can't get the same options online.
Sep 8, 2009, 9:20 pm
#26
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Portland, OR
Programs: DL MM Plat, PC&HH Gold
Posts: 2,602
Saver has been extremely difficult for years, before the merger. For years I would buy a coach ticket and use miles to upgrade. That has also become extremely difficult the past couple of years. I almost wish that DL would restore more availability even at a higher miles cost. The way it is now and has been for a while is really frustrating.
Unless delta does something crazy good like giving diamond's extraordinary access to saver rate fares, I'm not expecting to be able to continue the track record.
Sep 14, 2009, 5:28 am
#27
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Chicago
Programs: UA 1K, HH Diamond
Posts: 2,055
Ok, so we finally found our award business saver trip to BKK...sort of. Check this award itinerary out and let me know if I am crazy!
Wed Feb 24th: LAX-HNL (FIRST) DL
Thurs Feb 25th: LAX-NRT (business) on NW
Sat 27th: NRT-ICN-BKK (KE Business)...we only have a 50 minute layover in ICN which really scares me
March 8th: BKK-ICN-YYZ (KE Business) (we have a 15 hour layover in ICN...what should we do to kill time?)
Total mileage is 120k each.
We live in NYC so have to buy one way tickets from JFK to LAX the Tuesday night before we go to HNL...then must also spend the night in YYZ and take the early morning flight back to JFK.
I COULD have used a same price award ticket doing JFK-SLC-LAX-HNL on Feb 24 but thought that was too much and didnt land in HNL till neat 9:30pm.
The ideal routings JFK-ICN/NRT-BKK were simply not available for any dates ....and I couldnt find EWR-HNL on CO for 2 people for any dates either...
Wed Feb 24th: LAX-HNL (FIRST) DL
Thurs Feb 25th: LAX-NRT (business) on NW
Sat 27th: NRT-ICN-BKK (KE Business)...we only have a 50 minute layover in ICN which really scares me
March 8th: BKK-ICN-YYZ (KE Business) (we have a 15 hour layover in ICN...what should we do to kill time?)
Total mileage is 120k each.
We live in NYC so have to buy one way tickets from JFK to LAX the Tuesday night before we go to HNL...then must also spend the night in YYZ and take the early morning flight back to JFK.
I COULD have used a same price award ticket doing JFK-SLC-LAX-HNL on Feb 24 but thought that was too much and didnt land in HNL till neat 9:30pm.
The ideal routings JFK-ICN/NRT-BKK were simply not available for any dates ....and I couldnt find EWR-HNL on CO for 2 people for any dates either...
Sep 14, 2009, 7:08 am
#28
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Home: Arlington, VA; Home airports: IAD/DCA/BWI
Programs: Active: AA, UA, DL
Posts: 4,095
You are my hero. Keep checking daily to see if something opens up. Have you considered flying to HKG or SIN?I've done some longer routings for mileage redemptions for my dad to fly to BKK in C. Based in DTW, I had him connect in the West coast, not so bad. However, he did complain about having to wake up early. I responded that he could fly non-stop from DTW-NRT if he flew in Y.
He didn't reply.
Sep 14, 2009, 7:35 am
#29
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Chicago
Programs: UA 1K, HH Diamond
Posts: 2,055
^ You are my hero. Keep checking daily to see if something opens up. Have you considered flying to HKG or SIN?
I've done some longer routings for mileage redemptions for my dad to fly to BKK in C. Based in DTW, I had him connect in the West coast, not so bad. However, he did complain about having to wake up early. I responded that he could fly non-stop from DTW-NRT if he flew in Y. He didn't reply.
You are my hero. Keep checking daily to see if something opens up. Have you considered flying to HKG or SIN?I've done some longer routings for mileage redemptions for my dad to fly to BKK in C. Based in DTW, I had him connect in the West coast, not so bad. However, he did complain about having to wake up early. I responded that he could fly non-stop from DTW-NRT if he flew in Y.
He didn't reply.
Sep 14, 2009, 7:56 am
#30
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Chicago
Programs: UA 1K, HH Diamond
Posts: 2,055
^ You are my hero. Keep checking daily to see if something opens up. Have you considered flying to HKG or SIN?
I've done some longer routings for mileage redemptions for my dad to fly to BKK in C. Based in DTW, I had him connect in the West coast, not so bad. However, he did complain about having to wake up early. I responded that he could fly non-stop from DTW-NRT if he flew in Y. He didn't reply.
You are my hero. Keep checking daily to see if something opens up. Have you considered flying to HKG or SIN?I've done some longer routings for mileage redemptions for my dad to fly to BKK in C. Based in DTW, I had him connect in the West coast, not so bad. However, he did complain about having to wake up early. I responded that he could fly non-stop from DTW-NRT if he flew in Y.
He didn't reply.