another loss for NWA loyalists

 
Old Aug 24, 2009, 11:17 pm
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another loss for NWA loyalists

Well, yet another insidious sign of the times...Delta quietly ends comp upgrades for Asian travel. As a Plat elite based in Tokyo with extensive travel around Asia, I always really enjoyed the space available uprgrade policy from Tokyo to Manila vice versa, Hong Kong, Singapore, BKK etc. Well as of August 1...its gone. Just back from a trip to MNL, and there were 20+ open seats in Biz....and all the Plat and Golds sitting in coach. Asked the Flight attendant and she said...yep its Delta's new policy...no comp up to Biz class. Wrote an email to Delta and NWA cust serv. Just heard back...the official policy is they never officialy did it anyway, so it couldnt be gone....Wow Im not liking Delta. Im sure Cathy Pacific or JAL would like my business.....
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Old Aug 24, 2009, 11:44 pm
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Cathy Pacific is pretty nice. They were serving meals on a <2:00 flight. Cabin felt extremely clean.
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Old Aug 25, 2009, 12:56 am
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Originally Posted by asianwaplat
Im sure Cathy Pacific or JAL would like my business.....
Doesn't CX upgrade only on overbooking - which they do quite often?

Search for Phantom Upgrades in this forum.
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Old Aug 25, 2009, 2:32 am
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Whether it was "officially" on the books or not it was certainly standard procedure. I think I missed an upgrade only once of approximately thirty NRT-ICN/ICN-NRT segments 2006-2008.

I used to fly KE TPAC but switched to NW for a number of reasons including upgrades...the TPAC "phantom upgrade" made me absolutely loyal for the last 12 months. I'm not surprised that non-program was pulled but I was cautiously hopeful that we would keep the intra-Asia upgrades.

I'm just back from my first KE trip in a while. I think I will be going back to mostly KE though may want to try the Delta BE if there is ever a fare warranting the use of the really quite useless SWU's

Last edited by In2ishn; Aug 25, 2009 at 2:33 am Reason: typo
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Old Aug 25, 2009, 3:37 am
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Perhaps if NW had been more business like during the years preceding the takeover by DL, it wouldn't have begged to be taken over by DL. Being customer friendly is one thing, giving away the store for no reason is another.
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Old Aug 25, 2009, 4:06 am
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Oh stop with the "beg to be taken over"... I'll just say the same about "your" airline... NOBODY was perfect or had the best plan, but no one was "begging" to be taken over either...

Originally Posted by Klm is Dead - Long Live KLM
Perhaps if NW had been more business like during the years preceding the takeover by DL, it wouldn't have begged to be taken over by DL. Being customer friendly is one thing, giving away the store for no reason is another.
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Old Aug 25, 2009, 4:12 am
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Just another sign that DL doesn't really understand the Asia part of the NW business. It's sad to see them slowly dismantle what I consider a very bright spot in NW operations.
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Old Aug 25, 2009, 4:18 am
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You don't know the other half of it... Delta is trying to chase the "VVC" Very Valuable Customer"... but feels that they only live in the US... my prediction is NRT will be de-hubbed in 3-5 years with the retirement of the 744's... as the loss to other carriers grow, there is no need to keep flying them to Asia...

Originally Posted by CLEHillbilly
Just another sign that DL doesn't really understand the Asia part of the NW business. It's sad to see them slowly dismantle what I consider a very bright spot in NW operations.
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Old Aug 25, 2009, 4:48 am
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Originally Posted by thezipper
...my prediction is NRT will be de-hubbed in 3-5 years with the retirement of the 744's... as the loss to other carriers grow, there is no need to keep flying them to Asia...
Unfortunately I agree with your prediction, and at the rate it's going it could be as soon as 2-4 years.

DL mnmgt will self justify this to themselves but it was themselves that will have killed their business there, not the market, just sad to see it go that route.
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Old Aug 25, 2009, 5:00 am
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Originally Posted by Klm is Dead - Long Live KLM
Perhaps if NW had been more business like during the years preceding the takeover by DL, it wouldn't have begged to be taken over by DL. Being customer friendly is one thing, giving away the store for no reason is another.
Not true. The begging (actually demanding) was by the Wall Street analysts. I'm not sure if they were instrumental in getting Richard Anderson into Delta, but once he was there the analysts started demanding "merger" in short order. They really started turning the screws to Anderson in early 2008, even threatening to replace him if he didn't get a merger lined up. They were concerned about getting something in the works that could be approved before the Bush Administration's term ended.

This merger was totally driven by Wall Street.
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Old Aug 25, 2009, 5:25 am
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I have also seemingly been the beneficiary of upgrades within Asia, long before the Phantums struck. However, I was upgraded maybe 50% of the time, not the success that others have posted.

This is too bad. DL seems to think that everything must revolve around ATL. I really hope others' predictions about losing NRT are wrong, as I really have grown to like that airport and especially the lounge. I suppose if NW/DL continue with their 787 order, they'll use them for direct flights to other Asian countries, reducing the demand for the need of a hub.
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Old Aug 25, 2009, 6:23 am
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This should really come as no surprise. It has been documented elsewhere that DL canned much of the NW Asian management. Both of these combined with their decision to give US a NRT slot (as part of the DCA for LGA swap) is just more evidence that Asia is no longer a priority for the new Delta.
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Old Aug 25, 2009, 11:51 am
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Originally Posted by Klm is Dead - Long Live KLM
Perhaps if NW had been more business like during the years preceding the takeover by DL, it wouldn't have begged to be taken over by DL. Being customer friendly is one thing, giving away the store for no reason is another.
I'd recommend reading the various articles out in the business press about the reverse take over by NWA of Delta...NWA has always been in much better shape than Delta...NWA filed bankruptcy for 1 reason - to force the labor contracts open, they self financed the trip through bankruptcy - they only needed "exit' financing to exit the trip...DL on the other hand had mortgaged everything and had no other option other than bankruptcy, the RedTail folks are in charge of the Widget today
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Old Aug 25, 2009, 12:01 pm
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Originally Posted by socrates
I'd recommend reading the various articles out in the business press about the reverse take over by NWA of Delta...NWA has always been in much better shape than Delta...NWA filed bankruptcy for 1 reason - to force the labor contracts open, they self financed the trip through bankruptcy - they only needed "exit' financing to exit the trip...DL on the other hand had mortgaged everything and had no other option other than bankruptcy, the RedTail folks are in charge of the Widget today
If the red tail folks were in charge of the Widget today, they wouldn't be wrecking the FFP or the Asian business. Anderson is not a redtailer; he's an ex-redtailer by several years and given the direction in which Delta is headed, redtailers certainly are not in charge.

However, I certainly agree with everything you said up to that last point.

Last edited by MikeMpls; Aug 25, 2009 at 2:59 pm
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Old Aug 25, 2009, 12:41 pm
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The DL geographic imaginary is different than NWs

As a corporation, DL visualizes the world centered on ATL and SE US, and to the degree that what they term a "global airline" is being created, what it means is that the rest of the world is being brought within business range of the ATL nexus. Strategies and methods are being devised to maximize the sale of DL inventory and revenue to the US-based target groups, the Coca Cola Club, maybe, to reach foreign loci. But not the other way around..enticing the Chinese business people to start using DL to access their partners in the US.

This is a big mistake indeed - just like BA, in that key respect, contracting itself onto the hideous LHR nexus, although DL uses some slightly different strategies and tactics than BA. I suppose there's less ideological hubris in the DL case, too. But the result of such a limited geographic imaginary and limited ambition is ultimately stagnation and contraction. There simply aren't enough dinosaur business customers to allow DL to grow. A defense of its turf is about the best it can manage with this outlook.

NW on the other hand didn't do this. Their programs were geared for residents of those non-US nations and often offered special opportunities for them. I knew many NW Elites when I lived in Japan, even those who worked for Japanese companies - not just the gaishikei managers who liked AA, DL. UA and CO had some presence but not the market depth that NW offered.

Just look at the proportion of non-US based NW elites on FT compared with DL elites.

This inward-looking and limited-scope corporate vision is a big mistake in the long run.

If DL is serious about competing on product attributes involving anything other than rock-bottom price (e.g. FR), somebody who's actually lived at street level in the non-US locations concerned needs to be directing non-US strategy. Not the culturally ill-informed MBAs who assume that all of what they read in their US-centric texts is universalist and can be applied. Or those who spent their two years in "Japan" living in the Ark Mori palaces surrounded by the other gaijin faces. No wonder they don't understand other cultures well.

DL management will come to regret dehubbing at NRT and abandoning Asian market customers to the marketplace of Air Asia and Jetstar.
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