NRT-BKK,HKG,& ICN: Aircrafts changed
Jan 5, 2009, 1:03 pm
#31
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Seat 1A
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Business travel and tourism to Thailand have been slipping during the second half of 2008 mostly due to the political unrest (even before the airport standoff). The global economic crisis made the situation even worse as premium travel to/from and within Asia dropped like a rock in November (just ask CX - they saw a drop of around 25% in F and J demand alone in November '08). TG has been launching various promotions to increase travel to Thailand (traffic rebounded during the holiday season) but everyone is now worried about post-holiday traffic in Jan/Feb and TG is set to launch a bunch of heavy discounts again starting mid-January, which will surely depress yields...NWDL putting a 757 temporarily on NRT-BKK is no doubt an attempt to maintain or even drive up yields with reduced capacity....
Jan 5, 2009, 1:20 pm
#32
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: MSP
Programs: nwa wp
Posts: 13
NRT-BKK
About 6-8 months ago I talked to someone in Asia Rev. mgmt about this route and they said it wasn't really all that great. If fairs were high enough to run a decent profit on the route then the plane flew empty, if they were low enough to fill the plane then NWA lost money/broke even. His reasoning was that they still flew it because they wanted to have it on the network, and that it generated business because it was a 'possible desitination'. Granted he wasn't in planning and was just guessing. Either way he said it wasn't much of a revenue generator.
not to mention something that has slipped under the news radar but turns out the Bird-Flu is back with 6 new cases in Hong Kong last month.
not to mention something that has slipped under the news radar but turns out the Bird-Flu is back with 6 new cases in Hong Kong last month.
Jan 5, 2009, 5:29 pm
#33
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Anywhere but home
Programs: UA 1K/MM, DL GM/MM, AA Gold, HH Dia, PC Plat, ALL Sil, MR Gold
Posts: 4,550
I was in BKK last week and all things were normal at the airport. The airport was busy, in fact jammed packed on 28 December. On my flight, there wasn't a single empty seat open in coach. On my return, the plane was maybe only half full. But then again, who wants to leave on 1 Jan?
I speculate that demand to Thailand is lower now with 1) the poor economy and 2) the uncertainty of the political situation and recent closure of the airport. Issue #2 would only impact the unseasoned traveler IMO, but that could be a good number of folk.
I speculate that demand to Thailand is lower now with 1) the poor economy and 2) the uncertainty of the political situation and recent closure of the airport. Issue #2 would only impact the unseasoned traveler IMO, but that could be a good number of folk.
Jan 5, 2009, 10:40 pm
#34
Join Date: May 2001
Location: YVR
Posts: 3,918
Changes goes into effect 07FEB09 and is likely to stay this way.
Jan 6, 2009, 5:13 am
#35
Join Date: Nov 2006
Programs: DL Platinum
Posts: 556
And why give any routes to KE? Isn't the idea to make more for Delta? With the Fly America rules on contract pax, esp those TDY to Korea, I don't think its wise to downsize, unless the numbers show it. and unless you've got them for NW, all we can do is come up with conjecture.
I would probably fly NW if the government fare booked into an upgradeable or 150% EQM fare bucket, but it does not. So, I stick with KE...oops...I mean DL.
Also, FWIW, I have not once been on an ICN-NRT or NRT-ICN flight that was not full or oversold. The majority of the time, they are oversold. Granted, it may be low revenue tickets, but the planes are full.
Jan 6, 2009, 7:08 am
#36
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: WAS/TYO
Programs: UA 1K, AA EXP (3MM), DL PM, BONVOY TITANIUM, HYATT GLOBALIST, HILTON DIAMOND, IHG DIAMOND AMB, et al
Posts: 5,912
I imagine, though, that duty-free offerings - which are in huge demand on the NRT-ICN route - will have to take a hit.
-FlyerBeek
Jan 8, 2009, 6:04 am
#37
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: ATL
Programs: DL SkyMiles PM/2MM, AA Plat, IC Diam. Amb., Peninsula regular, amanjunkie
Posts: 5,848
Are the 757's operating these routes equipped with WBC seats or domestic First Class seats? Or is it too soon to know for sure?
Jan 17, 2009, 5:11 pm
#39
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: St. Paul, MN
Programs: I've gone dormant. For now.
Posts: 1,480
I went to look at tickets for the fall from the US-BKK, and it is still a 757. It looks like the change is permanent. This makes me very mad.
Also, it looks like AMS-BOM is going to DL and will be a 767 too, starting sometime before fall.
Also, it looks like AMS-BOM is going to DL and will be a 767 too, starting sometime before fall.
Jan 17, 2009, 5:34 pm
#40
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: ORD/MDW
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), or real WBC?
Jan 17, 2009, 9:14 pm
#41
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: NRT / HND
Programs: AA EXP, NH Plat, Former UA 1K
Posts: 5,634
I flew one of these from TPE-NRT. They're really not all that bad. The seats aren't electric but they do have most of the motion of the regular WBC seats. Overhead bins are rather slim however, this was actually a problem since not even my laptop case would fit without reconfiguring it.
Jan 17, 2009, 9:17 pm
#42
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Home: Arlington, VA; Home airports: IAD/DCA/BWI
Programs: Active: AA, UA, DL
Posts: 4,095
Jan 17, 2009, 9:59 pm
#43
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 3,106
Northwest has (or had) a sizeable operation in BKK. Even with traditionally low wages in Thailand, I can't imagine they can sustain having > 50 people working on the ground there in BKK (the sales office at both the airport and in the city, the operations office, cargo from a 747 flight every few days, etc.). Northwest even had billboards along the skyway from the old airport into the city. I guess all that is being downsized now?
Jan 18, 2009, 7:05 am
#44
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Home: Arlington, VA; Home airports: IAD/DCA/BWI
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Posts: 4,095
Northwest has (or had) a sizeable operation in BKK. Even with traditionally low wages in Thailand, I can't imagine they can sustain having > 50 people working on the ground there in BKK (the sales office at both the airport and in the city, the operations office, cargo from a 747 flight every few days, etc.). Northwest even had billboards along the skyway from the old airport into the city. I guess all that is being downsized now?
It's part of Thai culture to over-staff things.
Labor is cheap, cheap, cheap, cheap, cheap.
Jan 18, 2009, 8:08 am
#45
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: St. Louis MO
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Posts: 382
Any of NW's Intra Asian flights is one lonely frequency per day, which arrive and leave their particular destination at the most inconvenient times of the day. There are fifty or more daily flights to those destinations served by a myriad of carriers from NRT at better times, better frequencies, lower price and better service. The new masters probably feel more comfortable to think of NRT plainly as a hub where the incoming US pax from the 7 US gateways are redistibuted to their final destinations. DL never made any efforts to market their ATL-NRT-ATL service here in Japan. It fills from the US. Their PVG service, as I understand it, has already been reduced substantially. Forget any marketing from DL in Asia. There is no marketing from DL in Europe either. The whole International traffic on DL is based on the premise that US based flyers are captive to DL's route system. And if it is true that DL has expressed the opinion that they are not interested in low revenue pax ( speak tour groups ) here, then their currently planned and probably plong lasting down- or as they may call right-sizing is the proof.
This is a well-known move by a dominant carrier. AA did it in STL after the TW takeover. We now have more than half the old TW routes being flown with RJ in the name of 'rationalization'. This is code for forcing pax to connect into fortress hubs on mainliners, or pay outrageous fares to sit inside jungle jets for the 'privilege' of flying a city-pair. You pick.
Welcome to Delta.