Nevsky

As of today, nwa.com says:
"In order to claim an upgrade, the upgraded seat must be available for the entire segment. A segment is defined as all travel under a single flight number, even if it involves multiple stops."

I am booked in Y class going from SIN to NRT to DTW. There is now Z class availability on the segment from NRT to DTW but they will not give me and upgrade for the NRT to DTW segment. FYI, the segments from SIN to NRT and from NRT to DTW are different flight numbers.

I was told that the upgrade must be available on the complete flight (both segments) from SIN to DTW. This does not make sense, especially in the light of the quote above from the Web site.

The supervisor I spoke with said maybe the Web site needs to be changed.

What is the rule here? Has it been changed? If not, how do I get this upgrade?

mdb

This is called "jouney logic" and it sucks. The only way is if there is no WBC on the flight.

RobOnLI

In the past I've successfully upgraded NRT-SEA as part of a BKK-NRT-SEA ticket. The BKK-NRT segment never opened up and they told me to request it at the airport again. Apparently there were 7 people in the same position as me.

But the point is that the Plat Elite line was able to upgrade me NRT-SEA with no problem. No questions asked. Of course, the mileage was the same as if I were upgraded from BKK.

-RM

Nevsky

How would one be able to do an airport upgrade if none of the segments on that journey were upgraded (even if Z was once available on one segment) because all of the segments were not available at the same time?

Also, the published rules really do not specify not being able to upgrade only one segment (and hopefully being waitlisted for the other segment).

RobOnLI

As far as I know, NW doesn't really allow at-airport upgrades using miles on the day of departure. However, if you have successfully a portion of a trip (e.g. NRT-SEA as part of BKK-NRT-SEA) then your PNR will be noted as such. Thus, when you get to BKK you can request the upgrade again and they should accommodate you if WBC is open. Of course, this is probably a manual process and anyone who was waiting for a mileage upgrade would be in the same boat. It's not an automated process so I have no idea how the airport would order the upgrade list, etc.etc.

-RM

Nevsky

That is the problem. They say they will not give me an upgrade to the NRT-DTW segment unless SIN-NRT is also available at the same time. I have not heard of this requirement before.

henanbuzz2000

for some reason i can never get the ug out of CAN but once i get to NRT i normally get it.....and yes, the mileage is still the same

dmf_singapore

I had the exact same experience last week on NW 20 SIN/NRT/MSP and on to STL. The NRT/MSP had upgrade availability (I was on a B class ticket) but the SIN/NRT leg didn't. I called the platinum line three times and the Singapore WP line once and always received the same answer - "It's one flight number so there must be availability for this 'direct' flight all the way through" (even though the SIN/NRT segment is an A330 and the NRT/MSP is a 747). I had been waitlisted for the upgrade as a Platinum since about February.

Two days before the flight I logged on to the NW website and started a SIN/MSP reservation and found that if I made a new booking, I could get the upgrade right then. I called the Platinum US line and at first was told "sorry, I don't see any U class" but I asked her to please try what I did - open a new window and make a new SIN/MSP booking. When she did, she was surprised that she saw what I did - that an upgrade was available if a new B class ticket was purchased. She made a fake reservation so she could contact her supervisor and show/explain it (i.e., that she didn't have a U seat for me, but if she made a new reservation there was one available). After about 10 minutes on hold, she came back and I had an upgrade for the entire journey.

Interestingly, NW 20 was delayed out of SIN on Jul 26 due to a mechanical so I ended up being rebooked thru Seattle. What this has taught me is to avoid "direct" flights. Had I chosen to connect via DTW I wouldn't have had this problem.

Nevsky

What is really annoying in my case is that I have two different flight numbers from DTW to NRT and NRT to SIN and they still will not give me the upgrade (and this is in Y—so I am looking for the Z bucket).

They are following the rule about the same flight number (which does not make sense to begin with) and applying it to connecting flights (which not only makes less sense, but essentially contradicts what is (at least when I booked and probably still is) on their website).

mrcimino1

No, this has nothing to do with the "same flight number" rule, which also can be an annoying issue. But as pointed out in the very first reply to your question, this is a case of "journey logic".

This means that there are different availability displays, depending on whether you ask for SIN-NRT, or NRT-DTW, or SIN-DTW. Or for that matter, if you ask for SIN-LAX via NRT. What the agent was trying to tell you, but failed to communicate apparently, was that since you are booked SIN-NRT-DTW, he/she must look only at the availability of Z class for the exact same routing. It makes no difference whatsoever if Z is available only when you look at NRT-DTW, because it is not available when you look at SIN-DTW via NRT. The reasons for this are many, but quite simply selling a Y fare from NRT to DTW is more desirable for NW than selling a Y fare from SIN-DTW, and they will use the availability of the upgrade with miles to try to entice someone in Japan to buy that ticket rather than spend their money with another carrier (like UA or AA or JAL). I have not actually checked the fares, but it is also quite possible that a Y fare NRT-DTW is more expensive than a Y fare SIN-DTW. If it happens to be, then it is easy to see why they would allow someone originating in Japan to purchase the upgrade, and not allow you to do it with an origination in SIN.

As the previous poster stated, "Journey Logic sucks!!"

Nevsky

Thank you for the very good explanation. I understand the issue and the "logic", but where in the rules does this appear? Came as news to me after purchasing two tickets.

mrcimino1

You won't find it in the "rules" anywhere, but Journey Logic and Married Segments are a fact of life for almost every US airline these days. It is part of their Inventory Management program which is designed to maximize the revenue from every seat on every flight.

Just like the ticket you purchased, the fare bucket must be available for the particular combination of connecting flights that you choose. For example, it does not matter if B is available when looking at only SIN-NRT and when looking at NRT-DTW separately. If there is no B availability when you look at the entire journey SIN-NRT-DTW, then you can not purchase the ticket at the B fare. Instead you must pay whatever the lowest "available" fare is that is offered for the entire journey. And once those flights are in your reservation they are "married" and you can not cancel only one of them without canceling the other one as well. This is why they must look at the availability of Z class only in the display of availability from origin to destination, and not segment by segment. If an upgrade is available, then the entire one-way journey (both segments) must be canceled and replaced by a new trip containing both new segments. The agent can not just cancel only one segment and replace it with an upgraded segment.

The good news is that availability is constantly changing, and it changes much more frequently as the date of the flight gets closer. Particularly when you get within 7 or 8 days of the flight, NW does start adding back some unsold seats into the Z bucket. And it is possible that you might be able to upgrade first one of the segments when Z does become available, and then a day or two later upgrade the other segment when Z becomes available. The two segments do not have to have Z available at the same time, but it must show as available for one of the flights when you look only at the entire journey and not segment by segment. If you are traveling on a Y fare, you have every reason to expect that eventually you will be able to use miles to upgrade to Z, unless they are able to sell all of the WBC seats at J and C fares. You can even do the upgrade at the gate here in the States, as long as you have at least 1 hour prior to departure to allow them the time to take your miles and reissue the ticket. Just ask for the Customer Service Manager who is working that particular international flight and he/she will help you get it done. However, if you are outside the US, you can not do it at the airport normally. You have to call back here and talk to the Elite Line folks and have them do it over the phone for you before you go to the airport. AFAIK the one exception to that is in AMS, where they will do it for you in the KLM Lounge and you just sign something that authorizes them to take the miles out of your NW account.

Getting an upgrade using miles can be a very frustrating experience. Even more so that just getting a free ticket in WBC, because you can almost always just use the higher level PerkPass award and get the free seat, as long as you are willing to spend twice the amount of miles for it. But as I said, since you are traveling on a Y fare, you have every reason to expect that eventually you are going to be able to use your miles and get the upgrade. Just keep checking.....best of luck.

Nevsky

Thank you once again for a great explanation. Very helpful.

raehl311

The part where it says you have to have upgrades available.

The way to look at it is, not all upgrade buckets are the same. NW is opening up availability for NRT-DTW journeys but not SIN-DTW journeys. It's the upgrade equivalent of having a promo fare from one origin-destination and not another.

Put another way, there are no upgrade bucket seats available for either segment (for tickets with your origin/destination).