motytrah

So DL's version of Scoop Mark I made an interesting post over in the DL forum.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=837733

Things I haven't seen directly spelled out in any of the merger threads.

1) There is a 4th tier for DL. Unlike NW, DL does acknowledge it, though will not officially say what the bennies are.

2) Two plats are up for one seat in F. The Plat with an Amex Reserve Card (Very high Annual Fee) gets the seat. The reserve card is pretty much a gimme for SM, and it's not that hard to get GE with one flight and enough spending.

3) DL's scoop is a little more candid about what the expectations are going forward, but stops short of any signaling.

4) There are a number of issues brought up about some of the certificates you get as a M on DL, as well as some direct comparisons on what NW does better than DL. Quite Candid.

Overall DL seems to give their version of scoop a lot of latitude to talk to the FFers. So it looks like once they can start giving up some info we'll all be in a good spot.

GTITAN

What I found quite interesting was this portion of the post:

"As part of the NW/DL merger, particularly given the size of the combined airline, I would imagine that you’ll see a higher published tier that fits the larger airline. Although much is yet to be defined around the merger when/if it happens, a higher published threshold feels likely."

Others feel free to chime in, but I read this to mean that they're going to jack the highest tier qualification up from 75K eqms to some other number. I would only hope that if they do, that they also produce extra benefits for folks. If you match 100K eqms as with UA and/or AA and you leave the benefits as they currently stand, or heaven forbid, lower the benefits, one would seriously wonder if the highest tier elites wouldn't look elsewhere. Just a thought... Safe travels.

MikeMpls

Yes, the Managing Director of SkyMiles made another hit-and-run post in which very little new information was revealed. Relish it while you can. Never mind, take your time. We might not hear from him again for a month or two.

1) The 4th tier (also known as the "white envelope") has been known for quite some time and is a nice bennie, except for those who are unfortunate enough to be selected for the control group and thus do not receive the "white envelope" so Delta can analyze differences in spending patterns.

2) Yes, you can buy your way up an elite level & buy increased chances of being upgraded, etc. SkyMiles is all about partner marketing; flying is almost secondary.

3) I saw nothing particularly novel or unexpected in his post.

4) Do a search for posts by Jeff and read his past posts & the reactions. "Candid" he really isn't. He's a marketing mouthpiece. A comparison with Scoop I is unfair -- they're on different planets. On the other hand, has anyone heard from Scoop II lately? I fear we are Scoopless.

Delta is the dominant partner in the merger, and their upper tier used to be 100K. They dropped it to 75K for compatibility with CO & NW.

CO is splitting, and NW is being aborbed. Will a 100K tier really be that surprising?

Things are likely to get a lot worse as US Air goes belly up and UA can't cut it's benefits fast enough. I fully expect the worst of DL to come back the life.

baccarat_king

Is this something that has actually been confirmed? or is it just an assumption?

While I wouldn't necessarily doubt the possibility, with regard to DL, or any carrier -- I would like to see some concrete documentation of this behavior (i.e. control group), before calling DL out in public with regard to it.

MikeMpls

There were some posts in the DL forum a while back. On a couple issues (unraveling the connection between fare buckets and SkyChoice ability was another) DL has underestimated the collective ability of FlyerTalkers to assemble the picture.

Here's the confession:

Pity the poor controllees who don't get info from FT.

troyintn

Overall Delta has good and bad points like everyone else. My biggest issues with the FFP is the rules seem to change daily. They have slowed that down recently though. Overall I can live wiht the merger,I am just worried about all the elites. A new tier will be needed and or raise it to 100k, but Delta does not count segments so that may hurt a lot of NW folks.

mikey1003

This was the first post in 2-3 years (?) when Jeff Robertson actually answered any of the questions that the board asked. Usually, he flits in drops some dung and then disappears for another month, or three.

GTITAN

An excellent point on segments! My mother is an SE segment qualifier on NW, and if the new combined airline does not allow segment qualifiers, then it is off to some other airline for her. As I noted in my post above, if DL raises to 100k or beyond and leaves benefits as they are now for PM/PEs, other than "route captives", why on earth would the highest elite tier flyer remain? Understand certainly the need to "stratify" the tiers, but it needs to be done in an intelligent manner. Guess time will tell eh? Safe travels Y'all.

MarqFlyer

Well, that helps to explain the double MQM promotion over at DL: Not only are they trying to help all of their existing elites move up a level or two, they're setting it up so that it's easier for more of their PMs will be able to make the higher level than NW Plats.

All along, folks have said that NW Plats don't have to worry because we'll still be equal (as PMs) at DL. At my estimated flying of about 80,000-85,000 EQMs this year, I certainly will be a PM at DL. But I won't qualify for the higher level, mainly due to the absence of double EQMs. A DL flyer with the same travel pattern as me likely will make "Super PM" because of the double MQMs.

Don't get me wrong: I'm opposed to the overall dilution of elite status caused by the MQM giveaway. I'd be perfectly happy being at whatever level I achieve, as long as others have to follow the same rules to get there. Still, once double MQMs started and with the merger looming, matching would have been the right thing for NW to do. As it is, most NW elites (anyone under 100,000 miles) will have to spend a year knowing we're a tier behind folks who spent 2008 flying with DL.

MikeMpls

I do give him credit for mentioning the questions that were posed. One of the Delphoids started a "questions for Jeff" thread, and he did appear to have read the thread. However, the actual answers weren't particularly surprising or revealing. It's an improvement, but not an earthshaking one.

troyintn

Currently the 4'th tier at Delta is based on Revenue form what I read, it has nothing to do with Miles. UA has one and I believe it is moslty revenue based but they also look at miles/ or flights.

rlaakso

The 4th tier is by invitation only. I had just over 200K MQM miles on Delta last year, and I did not receive an invitation. It has nothing to do with MQM,s and every thing to do with revenue for DL.

tkey75

Mike, you are confusing two separate, unassociated things. Yes, the "White Envelope" exists, but it is not what is being referred to, as Jeff points directly to a 125k benefit threshold, and the EP status has no published mileage threshold, and is more based on spending than anything else.

What they (or at least Jeff) are talking about is a bonus upon reaching the 125k threshold (and possibly subsequent ones, IIRC), where the invited member can choose from one of several options of what to receive. In the past it has been 10k MQMs rolled over to the next year, 25k RDMs or an iPod. He also states in his latest post that the new threshold bonusus will be announced in the next two weeks.

MikeMpls

At NW we call that "Elite Extra Perks", and the requirements & benefits are even published. That hardly qualifies as a "4th tier".

sxf24

You're still discussing white envelope and threshold bonus in the same breath. They are two separate things.

One is an unpublished level of benefits (the fourth tier).

One is unpublished benefits for another level (not a fourth tier).