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Originally Posted by mrdebit
(Post 9717625)
Ok, long time lurking (and learning), but first post.
Last year I made the move from NW to AA. I had been PE for 10 years on NW (through 3/2008) and have been EXP on AA since 8/2007. I switched not because of dissatisfaction with NW, but because of a change in domestic and international flying patterns. I have learned, both from FT and from belonging to different programs, that there is not one "best" program for all and although I am very happy with AA, I was very happy with NW. (Does this disqualify me from being a true FT'er?) One thing that makes a difference for me is whether I would be a top (advertised) tier (EXP or PE) or a lower tier (PLT, GLD, GE, or SE). Because I fly about 125K BIS miles and mostly international paid business fares, the difference in the qualifying requirements for the top-tier level (100K vs 75K) is not important. In fact, given that I exceed 100K EQM/EQP the higher level works a bit to my advantage (fewer top-tier elites, on average). If I would only make PLT/GLD on AA or GE/SE on NW, I would probably opt for NW. What do I miss about NW? I fly primarily out of DTW, so domestic flights, especially to the East Coast are an issue. I am SE this year, so I continue to fly NW for the few of these I have. I am not sure what I will do next year as pond scum. Most of my domestic flights are DTW <-> ABQ, which requires a connection on AA, CO, DL, F9, NW, UA, US, or WN, so this is not a big concern. Although I am not a fan of ORD, I have not had any problems this year or last on the few days I flew through there. I miss the complementary companion upgrade, although msdebit is now AA PLT and soon to be EXP. I rarely used domestic award tickets, so don't miss the upgrades on those. Most of my international travel is to GRU or Asia. AMS is better than LHR for European connections, but the few times through LHR, I have had no problems. What do I like about AA? 8 SWUs. (I switched before the new Elite ExtraPerks program at NW.) I have used all 8 already, four to upgrade roundtrip economy tickets to Europe for msdebit and me and four to move me from J to (international) F. (The suites on the 777s are very nice, even better than my previous favorite, 73A.) I like the international partner airlines I have flown better (BA, CX, and QF over KL and KE). I like the idea of lifetime elite programs (even though I understand these are the program's lifetime, not mine.) I will be "lifetime" GLD next year. I like the idea of soft landings for when I stop flying as much. When flying to Asia, I like flying CX from LAX through HKG rather than NW through NRT. (NRT is almost never my destination and it only takes a couple of times getting stuck there to prefer something else.) I have had good service on both AA and NW, although I think AA F/J service is a bit more consistent. (When NW service is good, it can be very, very good; when it is, shall we say, less good, it can be very, very irritating.) The NW web site is better, but not enough to make me return. I have had excellent service from both the PE line and the EXP line. I bring my own IFE, so that is not an issue. Finally, some numbers important to me from SeatGuru: F pitch on NW domestic aircraft is 34 (DC9) to 37 (757). On AA domestic it is 39 (MD80 and 757) to 40 (737). (I am one of maybe three people who actually like the MD80, which is good, because that is mostly what I fly domestically.) I flew a NW DC-9 the other day in F and the difference in pitch was noticeable compared to the E/F side of an AA MD80. Now, the numbers you have all been waiting for -- upgrade percentages: NW: As a PE, not tracked, but I only remember missing one or two over the last several years (DTW -> LAX Friday morning flight). As a SE this year I am 2/2. (DTW <-> PHL). AA: As a PLT last year, I was 11/11. As an EXP last year, I was 12/12. As an EXP this year I am 14/14. Msdebit is also batting 1.000 on upgrades as a PLT, both this year (6/6) and last (12/12). (As a caveat, for PLTs/GLDs these require stickers and I have purchased them to upgrade when my earned stickers ran out. The flip side of this is that I have flown perhaps 25% of the time in F with an empty seat next to me, which happens rarely on NW.) These flights were mostly DTW <-> DFW and DFW <-> ABQ, not heavy elite routes, although I have been upgraded on DFW <-> LAX as well. There are obviously many things I have left out (boarding processes, clubs, Smith vs McNamara terminals, and so on), but none of these alone would make me choose one over another. As I said at the beginning, if my flying patterns had not changed (DTW to ABQ and Australia), I would probably still be with NW. One last, semi-OT comment: I sampled UA, which has probably the best route coverage for me, but based on my admittedly small sample size, I would choose either NW or AA over UA. I hope this helps. My suggestion, for someone who has similar flying patterns, is to wait until an international J-class trip is planned and take the Platinum challenge (details on the AA board). You will be AA PLT (GE equivalent) at the end of the trip and will not have to spend any time as a GM. for your upgrades on AA. I was paying $0.00 for my NW upgrades. I remember one trip to Hawaii I took on AA, with my wife and I. Base fare was about $500 each RT from SAT, but my "stickers"for FC cost me $800.00 more. Your upgrade comparison between AA and NW is deeply flawed. |
It always seems to be alot of misunderstanding regarding stickers. I think it just comes down to good planning.
I was a longtime NW Plat MM, went to UA 1k two years ago, and now I'm 1 trip away from AA EXP. I never had to buy any 500miler "stickers" on UA. My UG % with both NW and UA was 100%. I had always heard all the rumbling about stickers but the truth is, at the end of the year I had extra ones that turned into miles. You would be surprised at how many stickers or 500milers you can earn while using 6 or 8 swus. they rack up fast |
An airline comparison mostly depends on flying patterns. If you fly mostly int'l J, enough to make top tier, and maybe throw in some rare domestic segments, then airlines are not that different from one another. You're generally treated well, have similar special priviledges, etc. The differences in this niche are minimal. If you fly mostly domestic, then those UG's play a big role. If you fly mostly int'l Y, then the quality and comfort of the plane, club priviledges, connecting airports and partners come into play.
Obviously, the routes are also important. NW covers some areas very well (Asia, Midwest, Europe via AMS), while some areas are not-so-well covered (West Coast, LatAm, Africa). So this is another important factor. So it's almost impossible to say X airline is better than Y (unless Y is DL or US, in which case X can be pretty much whatever). It's all about what works for each flyer. As such, I've always found this kind of discussion moot. :eek: |
Originally Posted by bobemac
(Post 9720740)
I was paying $0.00 for my NW upgrades.
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Originally Posted by bobemac
(Post 9720740)
Please expand on the cost of those "stickers" to upgrade. I know that they were at least $40.00 for every 500 miles. So, you paid a lot of extra $$$$
for your upgrades on AA. I was paying $0.00 for my NW upgrades. I remember one trip to Hawaii I took on AA, with my wife and I. Base fare was about $500 each RT from SAT, but my "stickers"for FC cost me $800.00 more. Your upgrade comparison between AA and NW is deeply flawed. The point of my post is correctly summarized by florin, though I don't think I was claiming than AA > NW for anyone other than me, and I hope that came across. It was not NWA-bashing in the least. I fly a lot now to places that ST does not work as well (for me) as OW. If (when) my destinations change, I'll go back to NW. |
Originally Posted by mrdebit
(Post 9722300)
Stickers are $30 per 500 mile segment (purchased online), but you also earn them by flying. Therefore, I did not pay for all upgrades, but for some. My upgrade comparison is not "deeply flawed." I reported upgrade success. I never claimed that upgrades were complimentary (for PLT/GLD) on AA. (tom911 notes, as I should have, that domestic upgrades are complimentary for EXPs.) That is one reason I wrote "If I would only make PLT/GLD on AA or GE/SE on NW, I would probably opt for NW." Also, as giggy points out, the use of "stickers" (they are electronic now) might take more planning, but is hardly rocket science (even I can do it). Speaking of comparisons, are complimentary upgrades to HNL one of those "exciting enhancements" at NW now that I've left.;)
The point of my post is correctly summarized by florin, though I don't think I was claiming than AA > NW for anyone other than me, and I hope that came across. It was not NWA-bashing in the least. I fly a lot now to places that ST does not work as well (for me) as OW. If (when) my destinations change, I'll go back to NW. on NW. Every flight on AA was a battle with "stickers" to get upgraded, and AA was always mooching on everything. The ease of upgrading on NW as a PE, or a GE is way ahead of AA IMO. If money and cost isn't a factor to you, I'm sure their frequent flyer program (AA) would be attractive. AA, also imposes fare basing as a limitation on upgrade availability. So, NW wins again. Your itineraries are not typical, but if I was flying as you do, from where you fly, my program would be transparent, and I wouldn't be concerned with those irritating "stickers" either. The typical NW elite domestic flyer, cannot do better than NW for frequency of upgrades, regardless of fare base. |
Originally Posted by bobemac
(Post 9722765)
My frame of reference was as an AA Platinum, which is the same as a GE
on NW. Every flight on AA was a battle with "stickers" to get upgraded, and AA was always mooching on everything. The ease of upgrading on NW as a PE, or a GE is way ahead of AA IMO. If money and cost isn't a factor to you, I'm sure their frequent flyer program (AA) would be attractive. AA, also imposes fare basing as a limitation on upgrade availability. So, NW wins again. Your itineraries are not typical, but if I was flying as you do, from where you fly, my program would be transparent, and I wouldn't be concerned with those irritating "stickers" either. The typical NW elite domestic flyer, cannot do better than NW for frequency of upgrades, regardless of fare base. |
Originally Posted by giggy
(Post 9723076)
Sorry to say but: you seem to be missing the whole point of this thread. When NW merges with DL you may discover that you NEVER get an UG as a gold member. I must see that amex skymiles double miles for EVERYTHING you buy commercial 80 times a day. No matter what the spinners at NW corporate say: If there is a merger WorldPerks members will suffer
First I am a NW Platinum, who wants nada to do with Delta, since I've had a lifetime of experience with them already. Second; this is a response to OP's freewheeling comparison of NW to AA as to the availability of "free upgrades" on AA. Reading comprehension, it's amazing. |
Originally Posted by bobemac
(Post 9724059)
And, you appear NOT to have a clue dude.
First I am a NW Platinum, who wants nada to do with Delta, since I've had a lifetime of experience with them already. Second; this is a response to OP's freewheeling comparison of NW to AA as to the availability of "free upgrades" on AA. Reading comprehension, it's amazing. |
Originally Posted by bobemac
(Post 9724059)
Second; this is a response to OP's freewheeling comparison of NW to AA
as to the availability of "free upgrades" on AA. |
Now, now, we need to play nicely kiddies! :D
I do think these threads can be very helpful. Yes-what is good about an airline depends on each person's flying patterns and needs. But we can choose which FTers have things in common with our own travel patterns, then apply that very valuable advice to our future airline choices. Thanks to everyone who posts details of their travel patterns and why a certain airline worked/didn't work for them. Here's at least one FTer who appreciates it. |
I'll share my limited experience on AA for people who might end up looking for options. So far this month i've flown 2 trips to japan sea-dfw-nrt. Did it in coach but UGed with eVip once nrt-dfw-sea.
I find trying a new airline for the first time similar to Christmas morning. Everything is new and different. Feels like I become more atuned to everything and get out of my normal groove flying with it's normal ups and downs. My last flight in Mar was on CO fco-ewr-sea in BizFirst. I was shocked with the quality and effort they put into the customer experience. Hands down 10 times better service than UA and the food was excellent and plentiful. I was tempted to switch to them but Nonepass doesnt sound very good. I was still pondering my decision when AAdder hit FT. I signed up for AAs Plat challenge and searched out some MRs to make EXP quickly and inexpensively. I found decent fares to Japan and have done two of them, both sea-dfw-nrt. My third one was a bit more expensive because I added some segments to get me over 50k eqm (doubled with adder) and make top tier til feb 2010 along with 8 nice eVip's for my quiver. I made Platinum when I arrived at NRT the second time. My status got me the Plat mileage bonus RDMs and everything posted perfectly. Third trip goes sea-dfw-aus-lax-nrt-dfw-fll-dfw-sea. The total for all 3 trips was $2860 My first flight was interesting, Seattle is not a busy airport for AA. There was no line, the TA was quite friendly and got me a decent seat. she also got me a really nice seat for the NRT flight the next morning. I've got a broken leg and i'm flying on crutches. She put me in seat 20a on the 777 nice bulkhead with about 10 extra inches of legroom and no seat reclining from in front of me. also no-one sitting next to me. Great flight. I found the GAs surprisingly very nice. Not at all what i'm accustomed to with NW or UA. FA's were also very very nice and helpful and friendly. again much better than NW and UA, Not to dis the 10% of UA and NW fa's who are gems. I found the dfw-nrt trip disturbingly similar to service on NW. FAs were right out with drinks, then food cart, pulled the shades and disappeared. It's hard for me to compare coach food since I havent had it on any carrier in 6 yrs. Portions were very small, certainly not enough for a grown adult for 13 1/2 hrs. I had braised sirloin tips. Of course, FA did one of my worst pet peeves. "we have a choice today, chicken or beef" I absolutely hate that. It's a meal, whats the big rush? whats so hard about saying, Good afternoon MR Giggy, today we have a choice of entree's for lunch, we have Braised Sirloin Tips in red wine sauce with carrots, or Chicken Florentine with a white wine sauce, and green beans with almonds. Doesnt that sound more appetizing?? This chicken or beef routine should GO on all of the United States carriers. It boggles my mind that these plum routes staffed by senior FAs can be so sloppy. Somewhere on each flight theres 2 or 3 people that by chance are flying for the first time on a US carrier. First impression is a lasting one. From NRT people have the option of flying ANA JAL Korean Singapore etc. why would they ever come back to UA NW or AA when they get US service thats the equivalent of a 20yr old slinging breakfast at Denny's during the morning rush? OK enough ranting :) Mid trip meal was a rather soggy sesame seed bun with one slice of ham and 1/2 slice of amer cheese, some dijonaisse and a fruit medley with 5 or 6 slices of orange, pinapple and kiwi fruit. Breakfast was an omlette stuffed with potatoes, I guess mushrooms or onions or peppers cost too much. Arrival went smooth and I went from plane through customs to Hilton bus in less than 15 mins. TRIP ONE: THE RETURN Happy to say, that while I was recuperating at the Hilton Narita, a FT friend from CC gave me a eVip for my return trip. It cleared instantly all the way through to Seattle. So I got to try AA biz class right out of the gate. Checkin was usual Japanese perfection. Got to sample AAs Admirals Club, Very nice decor, good spread, free booze and wi-fi. A bit nicer than UAs nrt club, havent been in NWs. Boarded plane to discover it didnt have the NGBC seats "next generation biz class" but the older barcolounger type. Oh well. Biz service was pretty much what I expected, winds were in my favor, only 10 1/2 hrs back. I got good sleep maybe 7 hrs. Ordered the Filet Mignon for dinner. Thumbs down, small thin overcooked tough and was served with steamed broccoli. The veg juice went all over the filet and made it taste like a pot roast cooked in broccoli juice. Horrible. Good flight, arrived in DFW 10 minutes early. Had 2 hrs til my connection, got to try the US Admirals Club. Again very nice, great decor much better than any Red Carpet Club, on par with DTW main club except no free booze, it did have a nice smoking room that didnt make you feel like a criminal :) Not sure about wifi I use broadband. Dfw-SEA was on a 737 decent legroom, had a ceasar salad with grilled chicken that was most likely the best food I've had with AA so far. TRIP TWO Very similar experience, great TA and great GA, as a matter of fact, the earlier sea-dfw flight was delayed, GA got me a window seat on the earlier flight, no charge, got in an hour earlier. Stayed at the DFW Hampton Inn and was pleased to find out there was a Benningans right next door that serves dinner til 2am my last trip was late no dinner Room service closed. Morning flight to nrt went well, got 20a again, this time I had someone next to me. He wasnt very talkative, seemed miffed I was sitting next to him, never asked for anything from the FAs and didnt fill out a Japan customs form. Must have been a FAM. I felt well rested and got maybe 1 or 2 hrs of catnaps. Food was again pathetic. Oh well. At least I made Platinum on this leg. TRIP TWO RETURN Had a nice time at NRT went into town and explored a bit. Arrived at airport with one thing in mind. Talking my way into the club, even though my new Plat status hadnt posted yet. Managed to get in, but after 10 minutes was asked to leave :) dopes. Flight was uneventful, got 20a again with no-one next to me. flight went well till we hit texas boarder, then ATC put us on the slow boat and added 45 min to the flight. It was the next morning so I went to the Club to see if my status hit yet. nope, they let me in anyway. Trip back to seattle was ontime yet very slow, I was wondering if they were slowing down to save gas. Finally got home safe and sound, a bit tired but happy I flew 32k miles in one week. |
I have tried to do some searching but haven't found much. (Seems like UA v AA and DL v NW v CO come up far more often).
How does AA Gold compare to WP Silver, particularly when it comes to frequency of upgrades? About half of my travel is MCI-LIT. I'm particularly curious now that DL and NW are merging. I use to live in the Southeast and flew DL a lot more. I use to fly NW more because it was an easy three-four hours MCI-MEM-LIT. I last flew NW in January 2006. I remember fondly my stops at the Interstate BBQ stop in what I think was/is Terminal B in MEM. And then they added a food court one. Thanks in advance for your thoughts. P.S. Do NW Silvers get American based or foreign based call centers? |
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