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-   -   "Strict ordering slashes tarmac time" (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/northwest-worldperks/797188-strict-ordering-slashes-tarmac-time.html)

respectable_man Mar 4, 2008 8:53 am

Link to preprint
 
Here's a link to the abstract. From this page you can also download the submitted version of the paper (in various formats).

motytrah Mar 4, 2008 11:11 am


Originally Posted by ed1 (Post 9354002)
Especially easy when they use door 2 which, IIRC, DL usually does on the 763s and 752s at TPA.

It's all about the doors. Think about bullet trains. Seats up to 1000+ Pax, boards in 10-15 minutes. No order, just a free for all. But you have dozen or more doors to use.

cs19 Mar 4, 2008 11:16 am

I think if you want to incorporate any complex boarding scheme, such as back windows first, back aisles next, middle windows, middle aisles, front windows, front aisles... you would have to implement a Zone system. Unlike some airlines, you would probably want several zones, not just three or four. They also need to print the zone in huge type. People have no clue what's on their boarding pass, and certainly have no clue about window versus aisle seats.

A zone system lets the computer determine the order, rather than the passenger try to determine their order based on what the GA announces. It also creates consistency for the GA as well... one thinks the "back" of the plane is row 20 and above, another row 18, another row 15... all over the board.

Yaatri Mar 4, 2008 12:13 pm


Originally Posted by MikeMpls (Post 9353843)
Delta's "DC9 equivalents" are the MD-88 (142 seats) and MD-90 (150) seats, both of which are larger than any NW DC-9.

Was on a full DL 767-300 (250 seats) ex TPA this morning that was boarded & pushed back in 35 minutes.

Two aisles makes a difference. Boarding a 757 through the front door, Airbus 319/320 or a DC-9 appears slower than boarding Airbus 330 or a 747.

Yaatri Mar 4, 2008 12:14 pm


Originally Posted by ed1 (Post 9351613)
I've been saying for a long time that after the elite boarding, they should start with the window pax and those seated in the same row traveling with them, which would keep the aisle pax from blocking the aisle while the window and center pax get settled.

There's still nothing like get the plane boarded quick or miss your flight to motivate the pax.

That would help some, but even window pax will need to stow their bags in the overhead bins. Boarding back to frank would produce better results IMO.

Yaatri Mar 4, 2008 12:18 pm


Originally Posted by sbagdon (Post 9354571)
Well... since we're mostly Elites here on FT, when boarding from 2L, loading Y becomes such an irrelevant discussion... ;)

Steve B.

True. It's an issue only if you missed pre boarding for the F cabin. You get stuck on the jetway behind those waiting to inch up to the aircraft.

Yaatri Mar 4, 2008 12:23 pm


Originally Posted by cs19 (Post 9355900)
I think if you want to incorporate any complex boarding scheme, such as back windows first, back aisles next, middle windows, middle aisles, front windows, front aisles... you would have to implement a Zone system. Unlike some airlines, you would probably want several zones, not just three or four. They also need to print the zone in huge type. People have no clue what's on their boarding pass, and certainly have no clue about window versus aisle seats.

A zone system lets the computer determine the order, rather than the passenger try to determine their order based on what the GA announces. It also creates consistency for the GA as well... one thinks the "back" of the plane is row 20 and above, another row 18, another row 15... all over the board.

Too many zones will also slow down the boarding process. There is an optimal number of zones for each configuration of aircraft and passenger load. Think CISC architecture versus RISC architecture.

spartacus Mar 4, 2008 4:34 pm


Originally Posted by pragakhan (Post 9353823)
The problem with NWA is because they general board, everyone gets in line once things they pick up the mic.

This is a problem sometimes. The gate at FRA yesterday had this really narrow approach to the door and, of course, everyone is stacked as they really don't do lines in Germany. However, I don't have a problem excusing myself to get up to the door when elites board. But then they called general boarding much too soon and I was then stuck deep in line. I like to get on, stow my bag, get into the seat and then watch, with amusement, the rest of the people get on. I don't know what the rush was because they already knew their was a slot hold for DTW and we would not be pushing back on schedule.

When I don't snag the UG the next best thing is getting on early and making sure I don't have to play the 'find an open overhead bin' game, especially in the cold months in the midwest when everyone has these massive coats that they so carefully spread all the way out in the bins. I did notice that they are now telling people not to put coats in the overheads until everyone with carry on bags has had a chance to stow them, but then you run into the 'everybody but me' rule; you know, that announcement pertains to everyone but me!

ed1 Mar 4, 2008 5:36 pm


Originally Posted by cs19 (Post 9355900)
I think if you want to incorporate any complex boarding scheme, such as back windows first, back aisles next, middle windows, middle aisles, front windows, front aisles... you would have to implement a Zone system. Unlike some airlines, you would probably want several zones, not just three or four. They also need to print the zone in huge type. People have no clue what's on their boarding pass, and certainly have no clue about window versus aisle seats.

A zone system lets the computer determine the order, rather than the passenger try to determine their order based on what the GA announces. It also creates consistency for the GA as well... one thinks the "back" of the plane is row 20 and above, another row 18, another row 15... all over the board.

Maybe a section of the BP that has a single digit the height of the BP would make it easier to understand, and a large LED display with a "now boarding zone" sign would also help. I'd say too many zones would be a problem also, maybe seven to nine on a longer plane, like a 753. As with any system, enforcement is key, and we've seen far too many boarding with the F and elites that aren't turned back. I know not turning them back is easier to deal with in the moment, but it causes more problems down the line.

geoffco Mar 4, 2008 5:45 pm

The agent in Lansing Saturday boarded F by row: Rows 3 & 4, then Rows 1 & 2. :rolleyes: I thought I had seen and heard it all in regards to boarding processes, but apparently I haven't.

mkenwayx Mar 4, 2008 7:12 pm

Here's probably the most interesting website I found, complete with video models! http://www.public.asu.edu/~dbvan1/pr...g/boarding.htm. Their models appear to suggest that random is actually an improvement over the old back to front system, but reverse pyramid and outside-in are still better.
Here's a breakdown of the types out there and who uses them...
1. Back-to-front- AC, Alaska, AA, BA, CO, F9, YX, Spirit, Virgin, US (some)
2. Rotating-zone- FL
3. Random (assigned seats)- B6 and NWA
4. Block- DL
5. Reverse-pyramid- US (some)
6. Outside-in- UA
7. Random (unassigned seats)- Ryanair and Easyjet (2 doors), SW (1 door)

Another interesting article concludes "Among row-dependent policies which do not severely constrain passengers, random boarding (no policy) is almost optimal," Bachmat and his colleagues report. For random boarding, boarding time is roughly proportional to the square root of the number of passengers.
Nonetheless, it is possible to improve on random seating or any row-dependent system by allowing window-seat passengers to board first, they conclude." (http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/...2/mathtrek.asp)


Here's some more research...
The problem with the research is that the computer models are only so effective at predicting actual human behavior. Here is one research model, which doesn't entirely come to a conclusion, but definately interesting to read (http://www.cs.bgu.ac.il/~ebachmat/managesubmit.pdf) and a related comment (http://www.maa.org/devlin/devlin_05_06.html). A more recent article (http://www.math.duke.edu/news/awards/MCM2007lmw.pdf) recommends:
"we recommend a hybrid boarding process; a combination of window to aisle and alternate halfrows. This technique is a three-zone process, like window to aisle, but it allows family units to board first, simultaneously with window seat passengers."

They acknowledge, as I'm sure NWA did as well, that mass general boarding is efficient for SW. The major difference of course is the drive on SW to get on and get a good seat quickly (similarly to Ryanair, but they also use 2 doors). The 757, especially the 753 is a big difference of course too.

Having done general boarding on the a330, the 2 aisles and door 2L made it better I'm sure, but it still was pretty slow (especially since we were in first, and had missed 1st class boarding, and HNL has no room for a red carpet...).

As you can see, the evidence is a little all over the place...

Anecdotaly, my experience with full FL 717s is that it was slower using rotating zone than NWA's chaos on an A320.

cs19 Mar 4, 2008 11:53 pm

I thought it was funny that I received this from NWA today buried in an email:

The next time you travel, make sure to use our Premium Boarding Lanes available to Elite members, customers flying First Class, World Business ClassSM and customers of the SkyTeam Alliance who hold Elite status. The combination of these Premium Boarding Lanes and our Open Boarding* process have reduced congestion in the gate area, jetway and aboard the aircraft.

*Studies have shown that this open boarding reduces the amount of time it takes to board a flight by an average of seven minutes.

slippahs Mar 5, 2008 12:50 am


Originally Posted by geoffco (Post 9358104)
The agent in Lansing Saturday boarded F by row: Rows 3 & 4, then Rows 1 & 2. :rolleyes: I thought I had seen and heard it all in regards to boarding processes, but apparently I haven't.

That's absolutely ridiculous.


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