Dick Ginkowski

After six months of NW as my primary carrier, having made the switch when DL dumped on Medallions, I thought I would compare the two and invite others who also switched to do so.

Fares: I give NW the nod here. Although fares can be fairly consistent between the airlines, NW has more discount opportunities.

Reservations: DL by a hair. nwa.com sometimes will not show the best itinerary and best fare combinations -- sometimes sending you through two hubs when a better, cheaper connection could be constructed (check out the ITA software site on how to do this). Also, sometimes you can get a better fare buying the same ticket on CO but flying NW metal. Go figure.

Award reservations: Draw. Both NW and DL are online. Push comes to shove, though, DL flyers have a backstop because DL may be able to get you an award booking on United. NW can utilize CO and Alaska but somehow it's tough to get those bookings.

Customer service: Draw. I would have said NW by a hair but NW staff recently had their discretion to resolve things severely curtailed. Both carriers have their good and bad people. DL, though, seems less likely to leave you stranded if your originating flight is delayed coming into the hub. NW, however, is usually quicker to conjure up alternative routings.

Check-in: Draw. NW has worked out more of the bugs in its automated kiosks, though.

Equipment: NW by a nose. Though I miss the quiet DL MD's, NW has the Avro's in addition to Beaver Jets and even the Saab's are a bit nicer than the Embraer props. NW equipment is usually much cleaner. NW refurbs more than DL and even the NW DC-9's are often a delight to fly. OTOH, forget about in-flight entertainment on most NW flights.

At the gate: DL by a nose. Never saw/heard of DL refusing to priority board Medallions on regular DL flights. Apart from this, DL has its boarding pretty much down to an exact science. Their computer monitors at the hubs provide a lot of helpful information. When deplaning, DL has a large screen as you get off the plane providing connecting gate info as opposed to everyone crowding the NW gate agent asking for info. (DL also gives this info in-flight.)

On-board: NW by a nose with two significant exceptions. DL provides onboard connecting gate information and allows you to use electronic devices longer than NW. Otherwise, more likely to get food on NW and, on longer flights, additional liquids. DL gives you a bottle of water, though, which is often helpful. NW FA's seem slightly less robotic. DL used to have great food in first but that is also diminished now. NW seems to have more enlarged overhead bins available. DL may have in-flight entertainment.

Frequent flyer programs: NW by a country mile. Automatic upgrades on NW without the hassles. Even Silvers get 50% mileage bonus vs. 25% on DL. On DL, even if you get an upgrade, the demise of DL first makes it virtually insignificant. FWIW, DL's mileage posts immediately vs. two-day delay on NW.

Hubs: NW. DL's hubs are smoke-filled and getting more dated. CVG is a public health disaster. No moving walkways at ATL gate level making for some very long treks at times. SLC isn't too bad except for the open door smoking rooms next to gates. Apart from this, NW's hubs are a bit more modern although you can have some nasty treks at MSP. Food opportunities at the two are a draw. The Lands End shop at MSP can be quite handy. OTOH, DL has better information monitors and placed at more logical places.

Baggage: DL, hands down. I've seen (literally) more instances of NW people mishandling and abusing bags. Though ATL is more of an exception, I've actually seen DL people there treat luggage as it it was their own. Once my MKE-ATL arrived with only 10 minutes to make the connection to SRQ. Surprisingly my bags made it onto the SRQ flight.

Network: NW by a hair. Both carriers have extensive networks but DL has done some pretty dumb things. For example, there are, I believe, only 3 or 4 DL flights daily from ORD to SLC, its western hub, and they eliminated the early and late flights ages ago making western connections difficult. There is no DL service from MKE to SLC at all which is bizarre given MKE's role as both a growing airport and an alternative to ORD.

Summary: NW though it could learn a bit from DL in boarding, providing connecting gate info onboard and by monitors at the arrival gate and baggage handling.



[This message has been edited by Dick Ginkowski (edited 07-15-2003).]

Radiocycle

Dick,

What do you think of the Northwest Worldperks Promotions like Mile-A+Polooza?

Does Delta offer many opportunities to earn a lot of extra bonus miles?

RC

Dick Ginkowski

Good point. I forgot to mention that NW appears to have better promotions although DL gives you 1000 miles for delta.com reservations vs. 500 for NW. Sometimes there are also double miles promotions for the SkyMiles Amex card (I consider the DL vs. NW credit card plans a draw though there is a way to avoid an annual fee with DL).

When it comes times to use the miles, DL may have more opportunities to get an award ticket. Let's see how the "alliance" fares on this score.

keithguy

I am reminded of a similar thread.

WorldPerks gives out a lot of miles, whether it's bonuses, promotions or customer service screwups, but there is a lot more award availability to use SkyMiles than WorldPerks. Whether it's redeeming on UA or the hard block for SQ seats, SkyMiles awards are easier to redeem than WorldPerks awards.

Of course, that may all change come today.

[This message has been edited by keithguy (edited 07-15-2003).]

Eidetic

To Dick's comments on networks, as an expat PM, DL is a flyspeck in Asia (1x ATL/NRT), and NW is a major force there. To those who need an Asian network, DL loses on that alone. I would give NW/KL the advantage in Europe as well. In CONUS, it's close, DL + UA vs. NW/CO.

jiburi

After your recent incident at MKE, I thought you had lost interest in flying NW period but I'm glad you are back on board.

I too find Northwest frequently with lower fares, and better promotions, and complimentary elite upgrades are exceptional despite some downgrade in service recently.

I must say that, to help Northwest's case, in MKE area, and also in MSP area, Northwest's frequent flyer IS the most preferred frequent flyer program. With this in mind, Northwest, at least, is making a committment to serve MKE ff member to several non-stop service to non-hub destinations such as Los Angeles, Las Vegas, for a trial period.... maybe a future mini-hub perhaps? Hope you can take advantage of these improvements.

Dick Ginkowski

The "incident" at MKE was relatively minor. The matter became worse when Customer Service just fired off a "nonresponse" instead of actually investigating the merits of the complaint.

NW is doing what UA *should* have done years ago: make more use of MKE. UA easily could have added some early out/late back nonstops to relieve some of the crunch at ORD.

remedy

I am a DL defector too, and have been pleased with the domestic program, but not the international program with NW. I like KL as a "partner" much better than AF, who have strikes all the time, and treat DL fliers poorly. I do not like the international fares for business trips or availability/cost of upgradable seats on international NW flights. I am told this is where they make a lot of money, so this is not likely to change. How were these issues with DL - I have not flown them internationally for a few years.

RRWhite

I've been pleased with NW since I defected early this year. Since I live in Atlanta, I can't completely abandon DL, so I have some opportunities for comparison. Where NW competes with another airline, I give them the edge. If NW dominates, like MEM - MSP, they're pretty much like any of the other airlines. My only complaint is lack of consistency in serving beverages in FC while boarding -- sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. And the amount of available time doesn't seem to matter.

I'll be platinum on NW by the end of the year. I spent $40K on air travel last year and the vast majority went to DL. Most of that is in NW's pocket this year.

JS

Could you please explain how segregated smoking areas are a "public health disaster"?

Dick Ginkowski

If you want to debate that exposure to second hand tobacco smoke is not a health hazard, you can do it with experts much more qualified than moi -- and in a different arena! (Note that the smoking lounges at ATL, CVG and SLC are not completely enclosed with completely separate ventilation.)

I'll accept your comment as Hubs:Advantage: DL because you can smoke at them.



[This message has been edited by Dick Ginkowski (edited 07-15-2003).]

JS

My point is that unless you actually walk into the smoking lounges, you aren't being exposed to secondhand smoke.

You're right, Delta has the advantage that their hubs have smoking areas (except DFW, which sucks for other reasons anyway). That's one of the reasons I choose Delta.

Don't smoke? Then choose one of the thousands of seats in the non-smoking waiting area, not to mention all of baggage claim, check-in, security, restrooms, etc.

Dick Ginkowski

Yes, you are -- they are not completely enclosed and separately ventilated. End of story. (Note: Many DL employees at CVG in particular have complained about this.)

JS

"Secondhand smoke" does not mean "faint smell of smoke". There is a difference.

GG

We are very pleased with NW so far. Of course, there are trade-offs.

Those wonderful Avros to DTW are a good place to start, and NW's schedule from LEX is much better for us. And NW’s codeshare with Alaska trumps DL’s West Coast lack of service hands down (and Boardroom access is another plus).

The new terminal at DTW is wonderful. Need to make a 10 minute connection from the end of A to B6? - not a problem! (Try that in CVG or ATL).

Worldclubs beat CRCs for amenities, food and drink (except beer). The staffs are as good as DL’s (I won't say better, but as good is pretty good). No Worldclub in SAN is a downside, as is no internet-connected terminals in Worldclubs.

In flight, the FAs for us have been as good as Delta's (again, I won't say better, but as good). Northwest food blew us away when we first switched, mostly I guess that they were still serving real meals at all - lunch DTW-BOS for example - but also the abundance (and the quality of the peripheral food at least. Main courses are usually edible but unexciting, but the appetizers and desserts are very good). I think NW's domestic F plonk is quite a bit better than DL's usual these days. And frankly, no IFE domestically is a Feature. I do like DL’s water bottles, and really miss them.

We've generally found NW's fares to be enough cheaper than DL's K+ fares that we've saved more than enough to cover the temporary Worldclub memberships we bought while waiting for CRC reciprocity to kick in, and to pay for memberships when our PM status expires. Now we have started notionally accounting our savings against the somewhat higher-than-DL-M-fares we'll have to pay to be able to upgrade our infrequent overseas trips. It may turn out to be a wash, but I tend to think that we’ll end up saving money flying NW.

Baggage: for us, NW wins pulling away. The worst is that there’s no curbside baggage checking at LEX. On-line check-in helps: the counter agents are very good about letting one of us check all the bags while the other stays with the car. But NW's baggage handlers in LEX are miles better than DL's (who are a disgrace). Coming back from our 1st NW trip, we got to the baggage carousel to find our bags already there – and we’d been in 2C&D! I was amazed. What, no 30 minute wait? I realize that baggage handling depends on the airport, but for us, we’re thrilled with the improvement. And so far, we've yet to have a bag damaged by NW (although have no illusions about that in the long run). We've had 6 bags seriously damaged or ruined by DL in the last 3 years - got a big whooping $25 for one, and their lousy repair service for the others.

Dick, I must say that if you've never had a DL GA ignore elite boarding and/or do "creative" boarding during irregular ops, you were just lucky. I can count a half-dozen times in the years before we became Platinum that we saw such things. Also saw it later, but it affected us much less, as I only once have seen the GA tell F to board last. You can check the DL forum for threads on the topic.

GIDS are good, and I have missed them now and then. But as far as gate announcements while in flight, that got quite a bit spottier on DL last year. So far, my NW boarding passes have had the correct connecting gate info printed on them, in all cases except one (the outbound plane was late and the gate was switched). I call it a tie.

We are finally learning the NW website, and as we become more familiar with it, we find it not so far behind DL’s as we first thought. And I’ve never waited more than a minute for an agent to answer on NWs elite phone line. Maybe I’ve just been lucky, but check out the numerous complaints about DL’s phones lines these days.

All-in-all, we are very happy Delta decided they didn’t want our K+ fare, double Platinum (we travel together about 98% of the time) business any more. Wouldn’t go back now even if they rescinded every SkyMiles change they’ve made.


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