GBadger

I don't know all of the ins and outs of availability (though I'm learning quickly), but I've come across some odd things recently. I'm trying to book MSN-MEM-MSP-BOS-MEM-DTW-MSN, and ITA shows an all-in price of $253.40, all in K. The fare bases are KA21QNV for both the inbound and outbound.
Now it gets complicated. I search on nwa.com for the same flights and get a much higher price ($513.33 using an e-cert). So, I think, ok, maybe there's no availability and ITA is goofing. BUT...
- Using Orbitz multi-city, I come up with the same low price ($253+orbitz fee) until I select the final flight, at which point it jumps up to $558+.
- Checking the AMEX availability tool multicity function, I see the K availability, check all of the correct flights, and come up with a fare of GBP 112.80 (~$227). When I click on "Select Trip", however, I get a message that tells me that there is no availability because "The flight that you selected has been very recently sold out and is no longer available."

So, what gives?? All of the non-nwa sites (ITA, Orbitz and AMEX availability) seem to show the K fare being available until you actually go to book it. I know that this is not a case of the fare selling out in the last few minutes, because it has consistently been like this for over a week. Is the NWA system somehow falsely masking availability? Anyone have any ideas as to what's going on or the full fare rules for this particular fare?

BobH

Two thoughts:

1) Are you trying to do all of that in one day MR?

2) NW may have decided not to operate one (or more) of the flights; there's been a lot of that going around lately.

Bob H

GBadger

Bob,

1) no. It's a weekend trip, out on a Friday, in on a Monday.
2) That's an idea, except that all of the flights can be purchased on nwa.com. Just not in K.

Jaimito Cartero

Perhaps there is some sort of married segment logic going on. I run into this a lot, where A-Z may be $100, but A-B-C-Z (even though allowed as segments) is $300. Sometimes I try different routings to see if it will price right, so instead, I book A-B-Z, even though it will still stop at C.

SchmutzigMSP

It seems this is the third thread you've started about roughly the same itinerary, each about a week apart from the last:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=728017
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=730533

This really isn't a NW topic as much as it is perhaps a MR topic or a TravelBuzz! topic, but we might as well try and tackle it here so you don't have to keep starting new threads.

1) The KA21QNV fare from MSN-BOS is only a one-way fare, not a roundtrip fare. This is most likely why the initial price seems right, but when they actually try to "fare it", it jumps. It's not a roundtrip fare and can't be sold as such.

2) The fare requires a 21 day advance purchase. Are you adhering to that?

3) Depending on what dates you are traveling and based on availability, I've priced your itinerary (as two one-ways) for $253.38 all-in ($126.69 x 2).

GBadger

Yeah, I appologize for the multiple threads, although I think that I've brought up three fairly seperate questions:
- One on multi-city bookings (directly related to nwa.com and nwa)
- One on maximum allowable mileage (directly related to MR's, and, may I add answered quite well)
- One on how nwa seems to have fooled multiple usually reliable sources into thinking that a fare is available (again, directly related to nwa/nwa.com).

I'm not sure that the fact that they happen to have all come up while trying to book similar (not the same, mind you) itineraries means that they don't deserve seperate threads. Could be wrong though.

Anyway, I think that you answered my question as well...Thanks .
- I didn't realize it was a one way fare. Probably the missing piece of the puzzle.
- Yes, I am adhering to the 21 day advance purchase.
- Thanks! That's likely what I will do.

GBadger

One other question then, since a quick search didn't get me anywhere:

Are pk certs (pk075 or pk182) applicable to one-way fares? I don't have the rules in front of me, but I'm guessing that they're r/t only?

SchmutzigMSP

That's the way I've always understood them. I've never been able to use one on a one-way ticket.

robbert

The reason for the 'weird' behavior is that ITA sometimes does not incorporate availability of married segments (you end up with a 'valid' price), Orbitz and AmEx do not incorporate it them until the very last pricing step and then the fare jumps, while nwa.com applies the correct rules from the start and you'll never (or almost never) get initial fares that turn out to be not bookable.

Smailtronic

I'll second the married segments thought. I ran into a similar problem trying to book a big series of flights through the three domestic hubs and Phoenix. ITA/KVS and Orbitz all showed availability, but wouldn't let me book (Orbitz did the price jump thing). Still being relatively new at the game, I don't know how to confirm that married eligibility is the issue, but it just spurred me to try different connecting cities. I ended up punting on PHX, losing Detroit one way, but adding Denver on both legs, and only "losing" a few hundred miles total.

Keep trying!

GBadger

Thanks .

I've figured out:
1) The one-way thing was definitely an issue (as expected, had I seen that).
2) I think that there's something else going on on the return, because again ITA can see K availability, but it's not bookable (even as a one-way) on nwa.com or orbitz. Maybe this is where the married segments problem comes in.

shedwannabe

My experience on Orbitz, Expedia and Travelocity (though worst on Orbitz) is that OFTEN they quote you a fare and when you go to book it, suddenly its not available. This happens upwards of 50% of the time, thus I rarely use them (I mainly use kayak). My sense is that it is a bait and switch maneuver. I can see this happening once or twice by chance, but it happening on a pretty consistent basis is a sign that either their search engines are pretty lousy, or they deliverately try to hook you with the low fare, figuring (often correctly) that you will say "I've put so much effort into it so far, I'll just book it". Personally I wish an AG of some progressive state would go after them and fine them big for running the scam.

Smailtronic

Gotta disagree with you here. The only times I get the price bump on Orbitz are when I'm looking for something crazy in the system (like a six connection flight from Baton Rouge to New York). When I'm looking for a quick and easy roundtrip home, I've never had the issue.

A couple posts up, Robbert mentioned that Orbitz checks fare availability after checking prices, and that's why those price bumps occur. Also, you mention using Kayak, but they'll still direct you to Orbitz to make your actual purchase.

DanTravels

Isn't ITA the vendor providing Orbitz's back-end algorithms anyway? Dunno about AmEx, though.

GBadger

Actually, with the search for this trip I've gotten quite a few options to show up on nwa.com that offer a price that, when selected, prompts a "this fare is not available" type of message.
Maybe I'm the only idiot that wants to gain 4700 miles flying r/t between MSN and BOS

So, is there any way to show availability for the "married" segments?