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-   -   difference between fare classes F and P (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/northwest-worldperks/720830-difference-between-fare-classes-f-p.html)

rufflesinc Aug 1, 2007 12:00 pm
difference between fare classes F and P
 
is there a significant difference between the two classes for a domestic flight? for refunds, do both refund as cash and can the refunding occur after the flight has already left?

DTW-HomeyFour Aug 1, 2007 12:18 pm
[KVS Availability Tool 2.8.5/Platinum - DotRes: DTW-ORD/NW/FA0V8R/454 USD]
Code:
BLACKOUT_DATES: NO BLACKOUT DATES APPLY.
DAY/TIME: NO DAY/TIME TRAVEL RESTRICTIONS APPLY.
RESERVATION/TICKETING: CONFIRMED RESERVATIONS ARE REQUIRED FOR ALL SECTORS.
  TICKETING MUST BE COMPLETED BY MIDNIGHT 1 DAY AFTER
  RESERVATIONS ARE MADE.
MINIMUM_STAY: NO MINIMUM STAY REQUIREMENTS APPLY.
MAXIMUM_STAY: NO MAXIMUM STAY REQUIREMENTS APPLY.
SEASONALITY: NO SEASONAL TRAVEL RESTRICTIONS APPLY.
FLIGHTS: NO FLIGHT RESTRICTIONS APPLY.
SURCHARGES: NO SURCHARGE REQUIREMENTS APPLY.
PENALTIES: NOTE - TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING.
  CHANGES
  .
  TICKETS MUST BE REISSUED WHEN ANY VOLUNTARY
  CHANGE IS  MADE.
  .
  GDPR - GUARANTEED DAY OF PURCHASE RULE
  DECREASE IN FARE AFTER TICKET PURCHASE.
  .
  IF A DECREASE OCCURS AFTER A TICKET IS PURCHASED
  AND PRIOR TO ANY TRAVEL ON THE TICKET OR A NEW
  FARE FOR WHICH THE PASSENGER QUALIFIES BECOMES
  EFFECTIVE THE DIFFERENCE IN FARE MAY BE REFUNDED.
  FOR COMPLETE DETAILS SEE PARAGRAPH VI BELOW.
  .
  I.  PRIOR TO DEPARTURE -
  A. CHANGES TO DEPARTING FLIGHT ARE PERMITTED
  PROVIDED THE CHANGE IS MADE TO SAME
  ORIGIN/DESTINATION AND SAME TICKETED TRAVEL
  DATE AND SAME BOOKING CLASS.
  .
  B. CHANGES TO DEPARTING FLIGHT INVOLVING A
  CHANGE TO ORIGIN/DESTINATION OR DIFFERENT
  TICKETED TRAVEL DATE OR BOOKING CLASS ARE
  NOT PERMITTED - SEE CANCELLATIONS.
  .
  II. PRIOR TO DEPARTURE - CHANGES TO CONTINUING/
  RETURN FLIGHTS WHEN THERE IS NO CHANGE TO
  ORIGIN/DESTINATION OR STOPOVERS.
  .
  A. CONTINUING/RETURN FLIGHTS MAY BE CHANGED
  TO ANOTHER FLIGHT FOR THE SAME DATE OR TO
  A LATER DATE WITHOUT REGARD TO THE
  ADVANCE RSVN REQUIREMENTS PROVIDED THE
  CHANGE MEETS ALL OTHER FARE RULES.
  .
  CONTINUING/RETURN FLIGHTS MAY BE CHANGED
  TO AN EARLIER DATE PROVIDED THE CHANGE
  MEETS ALL FARE RULES. THE ORIGINAL TICKET
  DATE MAY BE USED TO MEASURE THE ADVANCE
  PURCHASE REQUIREMENT.
  .
  B. IF A CHANGE IS MADE THAT VIOLATES ANY OF
  THE ORIGINAL FARE RULES TRY THE FOLLOWING
  OPTIONS
  .
  B.1  RE-PRICE THE CONTINUING/RETURN PORTION
  OF THE ITINERARY USING FARES IN EFFECT
  ON THE DATE THE ORIGINAL TICKET WAS
  ISSUED. ANY DIFFERENCE IN FARES SHOULD
  BE COLLECTED. IF THE REPRICE RESULTS
  IN A LOWER FARE THE DIFFERENCE MAY BE
  REFUNDED TO THE ORIGINAL FORM OF
  PAYMENT.
  .
  B.2  THE ENTIRE TICKET SHOULD ALSO BE
  REPRICED WITH CURRENT FARES. ANY
  DIFFERENCE IN FARES SHOULD BE
  COLLECTED. IF THE TICKET PRICE IS
  IS LOWER THE DIFFERENCE IN FARES MAY
  BE REFUNDED TO THE ORIGINAL FORM OF
  PAYMENT.
  .
  B.3  IF THE RESULTS OF B.1 - B.2 ABOVE
  RESULT IN MULTIPLE PRICING SOLUTIONS
  THE LOWEST SOLUTION WOULD APPLY.
  .
  III. PRIOR TO DEPARTURE - CHANGES TO CONTINUING/
  RETURN FLIGHTS WHEN THERE IS A CHANGE TO
  ORIGIN/DESTINATION OR STOPOVERS.
  .
  A. REPRICE THE ENTIRE ITINERARY WITH CURRENT
  FARES. ANY DIFFERENCE IN FARES  SHOULD BE
  COLLECTED. IF THE REPRICE RESULTS  IN A
  LOWER FARE THE DIFFERENCE IN FARES MAY BE
  REFUNDED TO THE ORIGINAL FORM OF PAYMENT.
  .
  IV. AFTER DEPARTURE - CHANGES TO CONTINUING/RETURN
  FLIGHT WHEN THERE IS NO CHANGE TO ORIGIN/
  DESTINATION OR STOPOVERS.
  .
  A. CONTINUING/RETURN FLIGHTS MAY BE CHANGED
  TO ANOTHER FLIGHT FOR THE AME DATE OR TO
  A LATER DATE WITHOUT REGARD TO THE
  ADVANCE RSVN REQUIREMENTS PROVIDED THE
  CHANGE MEETS ALL OTHER FARE RULES.
  .
  CONTINUING/RETURN FLIGHTS MAY BE CHANGED
  TO AN EARLIER DATE PROVIDED THE CHANGE
  MEETS ALL FARE RULES. THE ORIGINAL TICKET
  DATE MAY BE USED TO MEASURE THE ADVANCE
  PURCHASE REQUIREMENT.
  .
  B. IF A CHANGE IS MADE TO A DATE THAT
  VIOLATES ANY OF THE ORIGINAL FARE RULES
  TRY THE FOLLOWING OPTIONS
  .
  B.1 THE CONTINUING/RETURN PORTION OF THE
  ITINERARY SHOULD BE RE-PRICED WITH AN
  APPLICABLE FARE IN EFFECT ON THE DATE
  THE ORIGINAL TICKET WAS ISSUED. ANY
  DIFFERENCE IN FARES SHOULD BE COLLECTED.
  IF THE RE-PRICE RESULTS IN A LOWER FARE
  THE DIFFERENCE MAY BE REFUNDED TO THE
  ORIGINAL FORM OF PAYMENT.
  .
  B.2 RE-PRICE THE CONTINUING/RETURN PORTION
  OF THE ITINERARY WITH CURRENT FARES.
  ANY DIFFERENCE IN FARES SHOULD BE
  COLLECTED. IF THE REPRICE RESULTS
  IN A LOWER FARE THE DIFFERENCE IN FARES
  MAY BE REFUNDED TO THE ORIGINAL FORM
  OF PAYMENT.
  .
  B.3  IF THE RESULTS OF B.1 - B.2 ABOVE
  RESULT IN MULTIPLE PRICING SOLUTIONS
  THE LOWEST SOLUTION WOULD APPLY.
  .
  V. AFTER DEPARTURE - CHANGES TO CONTINUING/RETURN
  FLIGHT WHEN THERE IS A CHANGE TO ORIGIN/
  DESTINATION OR STOPOVERS.
  .
  A. REPRICE THE CONTINUING/RETURN PORTION
  WITH A CURRENT FARE. ANY DIFFERENCE IN
  FARES SHOULD BE COLLECTED. IF THE REPRICE
  RESULTS IN A LOWER FARE THE DIFFERENCE IN
  FARES MAY BE REFUNDED TO THE ORIGINAL
  FORM OF PAYMENT.
  .
  VI. GDPR - GUARANTEED DAY OF PURCHASE RULE
  .
  DOMESTIC PASSENGER TRANSPORTATION IS SUBJECT
  TO RULES/FARE/ROUTINGS AND CHARGES IN EFFECT
  ON THE DATE/TIME THE TICKET IS ISSUED/PTA
  PURCHASED UNLESS SPECIFIED IN THE FARE RULES.
  .
  DECREASE IN FARE AFTER PURCHASE
  .
  IF A DECREASE OCCURS AFTER A TICKET IS
  PURCHASED AND PRIOR TO TRAVEL ON THE TICKET
  OR A NEW FARE FOR WHICH THE PASSENGER
  QUALIFIES BECOMES EFFECTIVE THE DIFFERENCE IN
  FARES WILL BE REFUNDED PROVIDED
  .
  1. THERE ARE NO CHANGES TO ORIGIN/DESTINATION/
  STOPOVER POINTS/FLIGHTS/DATES.
  .
  2. ALL CONDITIONS OF THE NEW/REDUCED FARE MUST
  BE MET.  THE ORIGINAL TICKET DATE OF ISSUE MAY
  NOT BE USED TO SATISFY THE ADVANCE
  RESERVATION/TICKETING REQUIREMENTS. THE
  BOOKING CODE OF THE NEW/REDUCED FARE MAY
  DIFFER FROM THE BOOKING CODE ON THE ORIGINAL
  TICKET.
  .
  CANCELLATIONS
  .
  A.CUSTOMERS FIRST POLICY.
  .
  1. FARES ARE SUBJECT TO CHANGE AND NOT
  GUARANTEED UNTIL A TICKET IS PURCHASED.

  CANCELLATIONS

  CANCELLATIONS PERMITTED.
  NOTE - TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING.
  A.CUSTOMERS FIRST POLICY.
  .
  1. FARES ARE SUBJECT TO CHANGE AND NOT    ARE
  GUARANTEED UNTIL A TICKET IS PURCHASED.
  .
  B. CANCELLATION FEE
  .
  1. TICKETS WILL BECOME INVALID/EXPIRED ONE YEAR
  AFTER THE DATE OF THE FIRST DEPARTURE AND MAY
  NOT BE USED OR EXCHANGED FOR TRANSPORTATION
  AFTER THAT TIME AND DATE.
  2. ONCE THIS TICKET BECOMES INVALID - THERE IS
  NO CREDIT FOR ANY AMOUNT PAID FOR THE TICKET
  DUE TO THE IMPOSITION OF A 100 PERCENT
  CANCELLATION FEE
  - SEE GENERAL TARIFF RULE 105 -
BLACKOUT DATES FOR OUTBOUND FLIGHTS: NO BLACKOUT DATES APPLY.
MISC: NO PROVISIONS APPLY.
TICKET RESTRICTIONS: NO TRAVEL DATE RESTRICTIONS APPLY.
[KVS Availability Tool 2.8.5/Platinum - DotRes: DTW-ORD/NW/P26/1036 USD]
Code:
BLACKOUT_DATES: NO BLACKOUT DATES APPLY.
DAY/TIME: NO DAY/TIME TRAVEL RESTRICTIONS APPLY.
RESERVATION/TICKETING: NO ADVANCE RESERVATIONS/TICKETING REQUIREMENTS APPLY.
MINIMUM_STAY: NO MINIMUM STAY REQUIREMENTS APPLY.
MAXIMUM_STAY: NO MAXIMUM STAY REQUIREMENTS APPLY.
SEASONALITY: NO SEASONAL TRAVEL RESTRICTIONS APPLY.
FLIGHTS: NO FLIGHT RESTRICTIONS APPLY.
SURCHARGES: NO SURCHARGE REQUIREMENTS APPLY.
PENALTIES: NOTE - TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING.
  CHANGES
  .
  TICKETS MUST BE REISSUED WHEN ANY VOLUNTARY
  CHANGE IS  MADE.
  .
  GDPR - GUARANTEED DAY OF PURCHASE RULE
  DECREASE IN FARE AFTER TICKET PURCHASE.
  .
  IF A DECREASE OCCURS AFTER A TICKET IS PURCHASED
  AND PRIOR TO ANY TRAVEL ON THE TICKET OR A NEW
  FARE FOR WHICH THE PASSENGER QUALIFIES BECOMES
  EFFECTIVE THE DIFFERENCE IN FARE MAY BE REFUNDED.
  FOR COMPLETE DETAILS SEE PARAGRAPH VI BELOW.
  .
  I.  PRIOR TO DEPARTURE -
  A. CHANGES TO DEPARTING FLIGHT ARE PERMITTED
  PROVIDED THE CHANGE IS MADE TO SAME
  ORIGIN/DESTINATION AND SAME TICKETED TRAVEL
  DATE AND SAME BOOKING CLASS.
  .
  B. CHANGES TO DEPARTING FLIGHT INVOLVING A
  CHANGE TO ORIGIN/DESTINATION OR DIFFERENT
  TICKETED TRAVEL DATE OR BOOKING CLASS ARE
  NOT PERMITTED - SEE CANCELLATIONS.
  .
  II. PRIOR TO DEPARTURE - CHANGES TO CONTINUING/
  RETURN FLIGHTS WHEN THERE IS NO CHANGE TO
  ORIGIN/DESTINATION OR STOPOVERS.
  .
  A. CONTINUING/RETURN FLIGHTS MAY BE CHANGED
  TO ANOTHER FLIGHT FOR THE SAME DATE OR TO
  A LATER DATE WITHOUT REGARD TO THE
  ADVANCE RSVN REQUIREMENTS PROVIDED THE
  CHANGE MEETS ALL OTHER FARE RULES.
  .
  CONTINUING/RETURN FLIGHTS MAY BE CHANGED
  TO AN EARLIER DATE PROVIDED THE CHANGE
  MEETS ALL FARE RULES. THE ORIGINAL TICKET
  DATE MAY BE USED TO MEASURE THE ADVANCE
  PURCHASE REQUIREMENT.
  .
  B. IF A CHANGE IS MADE THAT VIOLATES ANY OF
  THE ORIGINAL FARE RULES TRY THE FOLLOWING
  OPTIONS
  .
  B.1  RE-PRICE THE CONTINUING/RETURN PORTION
  OF THE ITINERARY USING FARES IN EFFECT
  ON THE DATE THE ORIGINAL TICKET WAS
  ISSUED. ANY DIFFERENCE IN FARES SHOULD
  BE COLLECTED. IF THE REPRICE RESULTS
  IN A LOWER FARE THE DIFFERENCE MAY BE
  REFUNDED TO THE ORIGINAL FORM OF
  PAYMENT.
  .
  B.2  THE ENTIRE TICKET SHOULD ALSO BE
  REPRICED WITH CURRENT FARES. ANY
  DIFFERENCE IN FARES SHOULD BE
  COLLECTED. IF THE TICKET PRICE IS
  IS LOWER THE DIFFERENCE IN FARES MAY
  BE REFUNDED TO THE ORIGINAL FORM OF
  PAYMENT.
  .
  B.3  IF THE RESULTS OF B.1 - B.2 ABOVE
  RESULT IN MULTIPLE PRICING SOLUTIONS
  THE LOWEST SOLUTION WOULD APPLY.
  .
  III. PRIOR TO DEPARTURE - CHANGES TO CONTINUING/
  RETURN FLIGHTS WHEN THERE IS A CHANGE TO
  ORIGIN/DESTINATION OR STOPOVERS.
  .
  A. REPRICE THE ENTIRE ITINERARY WITH CURRENT
  FARES. ANY DIFFERENCE IN FARES  SHOULD BE
  COLLECTED. IF THE REPRICE RESULTS  IN A
  LOWER FARE THE DIFFERENCE IN FARES MAY BE
  REFUNDED TO THE ORIGINAL FORM OF PAYMENT.
  .
  IV. AFTER DEPARTURE - CHANGES TO CONTINUING/RETURN
  FLIGHT WHEN THERE IS NO CHANGE TO ORIGIN/
  DESTINATION OR STOPOVERS.
  .
  A. CONTINUING/RETURN FLIGHTS MAY BE CHANGED
  TO ANOTHER FLIGHT FOR THE AME DATE OR TO
  A LATER DATE WITHOUT REGARD TO THE
  ADVANCE RSVN REQUIREMENTS PROVIDED THE
  CHANGE MEETS ALL OTHER FARE RULES.
  .
  CONTINUING/RETURN FLIGHTS MAY BE CHANGED
  TO AN EARLIER DATE PROVIDED THE CHANGE
  MEETS ALL FARE RULES. THE ORIGINAL TICKET
  DATE MAY BE USED TO MEASURE THE ADVANCE
  PURCHASE REQUIREMENT.
  .
  B. IF A CHANGE IS MADE TO A DATE THAT
  VIOLATES ANY OF THE ORIGINAL FARE RULES
  TRY THE FOLLOWING OPTIONS
  .
  B.1 THE CONTINUING/RETURN PORTION OF THE
  ITINERARY SHOULD BE RE-PRICED WITH AN
  APPLICABLE FARE IN EFFECT ON THE DATE
  THE ORIGINAL TICKET WAS ISSUED. ANY
  DIFFERENCE IN FARES SHOULD BE COLLECTED.
  IF THE RE-PRICE RESULTS IN A LOWER FARE
  THE DIFFERENCE MAY BE REFUNDED TO THE
  ORIGINAL FORM OF PAYMENT.
  .
  B.2 RE-PRICE THE CONTINUING/RETURN PORTION
  OF THE ITINERARY WITH CURRENT FARES.
  ANY DIFFERENCE IN FARES SHOULD BE
  COLLECTED. IF THE REPRICE RESULTS
  IN A LOWER FARE THE DIFFERENCE IN FARES
  MAY BE REFUNDED TO THE ORIGINAL FORM
  OF PAYMENT.
  .
  B.3  IF THE RESULTS OF B.1 - B.2 ABOVE
  RESULT IN MULTIPLE PRICING SOLUTIONS
  THE LOWEST SOLUTION WOULD APPLY.
  .
  V. AFTER DEPARTURE - CHANGES TO CONTINUING/RETURN
  FLIGHT WHEN THERE IS A CHANGE TO ORIGIN/
  DESTINATION OR STOPOVERS.
  .
  A. REPRICE THE CONTINUING/RETURN PORTION
  WITH A CURRENT FARE. ANY DIFFERENCE IN
  FARES SHOULD BE COLLECTED. IF THE REPRICE
  RESULTS IN A LOWER FARE THE DIFFERENCE IN
  FARES MAY BE REFUNDED TO THE ORIGINAL
  FORM OF PAYMENT.
  .
  VI. GDPR - GUARANTEED DAY OF PURCHASE RULE
  .
  DOMESTIC PASSENGER TRANSPORTATION IS SUBJECT
  TO RULES/FARE/ROUTINGS AND CHARGES IN EFFECT
  ON THE DATE/TIME THE TICKET IS ISSUED/PTA
  PURCHASED UNLESS SPECIFIED IN THE FARE RULES.
  .
  DECREASE IN FARE AFTER PURCHASE
  .
  IF A DECREASE OCCURS AFTER A TICKET IS
  PURCHASED AND PRIOR TO TRAVEL ON THE TICKET
  OR A NEW FARE FOR WHICH THE PASSENGER
  QUALIFIES BECOMES EFFECTIVE THE DIFFERENCE IN
  FARES WILL BE REFUNDED PROVIDED
  .
  1. THERE ARE NO CHANGES TO ORIGIN/DESTINATION/
  STOPOVER POINTS/FLIGHTS/DATES.
  .
  2. ALL CONDITIONS OF THE NEW/REDUCED FARE MUST
  BE MET.  THE ORIGINAL TICKET DATE OF ISSUE MAY
  NOT BE USED TO SATISFY THE ADVANCE
  RESERVATION/TICKETING REQUIREMENTS. THE
  BOOKING CODE OF THE NEW/REDUCED FARE MAY
  DIFFER FROM THE BOOKING CODE ON THE ORIGINAL
  TICKET.
  .
  CANCELLATIONS
  .
  A.CUSTOMERS FIRST POLICY.
  .
  1. FARES ARE SUBJECT TO CHANGE AND NOT
  GUARANTEED UNTIL A TICKET IS PURCHASED.

  CANCELLATIONS

  CANCELLATIONS PERMITTED.
  NOTE - TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING.
  A.CUSTOMERS FIRST POLICY.
  .
  1. FARES ARE SUBJECT TO CHANGE AND NOT    ARE
  GUARANTEED UNTIL A TICKET IS PURCHASED.
  .
  B. CANCELLATION FEE
  .
  1. TICKETS WILL BECOME INVALID/EXPIRED ONE YEAR
  AFTER THE DATE OF THE FIRST DEPARTURE AND MAY
  NOT BE USED OR EXCHANGED FOR TRANSPORTATION
  AFTER THAT TIME AND DATE.
  2. ONCE THIS TICKET BECOMES INVALID - THERE IS
  NO CREDIT FOR ANY AMOUNT PAID FOR THE TICKET
  DUE TO THE IMPOSITION OF A 100 PERCENT
  CANCELLATION FEE
  - SEE GENERAL TARIFF RULE 105 -
BLACKOUT DATES FOR OUTBOUND FLIGHTS: NO BLACKOUT DATES APPLY.
MISC: NO PROVISIONS APPLY.
TICKET RESTRICTIONS: NO TRAVEL DATE RESTRICTIONS APPLY.
What I found interesting while digging this up is that the F fare is more expensive than the H fare, but less than the B fare on this route.

Basically, F is discount First Class, while P is full-fare first class... same as how (most) B-fares are discount full-fare Y but still are refundable and little or no penalties.

rufflesinc Aug 1, 2007 6:18 pm
ok thanks. is the refund in cash or like a voucher?

mrcimino1 Aug 1, 2007 6:58 pm
Some F fares are non-refundable, promotional fares. Less than the P fare, sometimes even less than a Y fare. Do not assume that just because it is an F fare that it is refundable. READ THE RULES!! ALL OF THEM!!

If it is refundable, the refund method depends on how you paid for the ticket to begin with. Credit card purchases are refunded to the same card that was used to make the purchase.

nwdc10 Aug 1, 2007 9:15 pm
To my knowledge F is discounted first and P is full fare first.

ekimston Aug 3, 2007 2:33 am
I have booked a first class in both classes and when I call, I was told that F is not always fully refundable. I'm sure it just depends on the market. In the several cases that i booked in F, i was able to fully refund or change without fees.

kkua Aug 3, 2007 6:10 am
My easiest way to remember... fares in P stands for PREMIUM and F is just simply FULL. Hence, P will always be more expensive.

remedy Nov 26, 2007 10:22 am
How
 
...so, if a flight is P4/F4, what does that mean? I have not been upgraded on nw 262 (yet?), and am hoping for one this Friday. Are there 4 seats still available - or more?

avidflyer Nov 26, 2007 10:26 am
Originally Posted by remedy (Post 8790251)
...so, if a flight is P4/F4, what does that mean? I have not been upgraded on nw 262 (yet?), and am hoping for one this Friday. Are there 4 seats still available - or more?
yes a total of 4. It will be a BF if you get it unless they open up a few more seats.

james318 Nov 26, 2007 10:59 am
Originally Posted by mrcimino1 (Post 8159512)
Some F fares are non-refundable, promotional fares. Less than the P fare, sometimes even less than a Y fare. Do not assume that just because it is an F fare that it is refundable. READ THE RULES!! ALL OF THEM!!
That is very true. I booked an F ticket DTW-MCO that had a $70 change fee involved. I had never run across this before.

humanoid94 Nov 26, 2007 11:18 am
To make matters more complicated there are some fares that book into P and F that are actually M-UP, Q-UP, etc that do not earn 150% EQM. This issue is actually my number one on "NW should really fix this" list ever since they fixed the "Difficult upgrades on direct flights" issue.

dmitzel Nov 26, 2007 12:57 pm
Originally Posted by humanoid94 (Post 8790521)
To make matters more complicated there are some fares that book into P and F that are actually M-UP, Q-UP, etc that do not earn 150% EQM. This issue is actually my number one on "NW should really fix this" list ever since they fixed the "Difficult upgrades on direct flights" issue.
Curious... what are you proposing NWA fix? I hope your druthers are not for NWA to eliminate the -UP fares. Those of us that are prohibited by travel policy from purchasing FC fares (P,F) would be shut out of Y0 flights if NWA did away with the -UP fares.

That, and I'd likely be sitting in the back of the (DL, CO, AA) bus as an alternative. :eek: I believe NWA knows this restriction is in place for alot of its customers and offers these upgradable "coach" fares accordingly. I personally am glad they do, as I would be on an alternate carrier otherwise.

I agree with you on the EQM bonus, although I have earned 150% on B-UP fares in the past. I have never seen an M-UP, so I cannot comment there.

RobOnLI Nov 26, 2007 1:38 pm
Originally Posted by dmitzel (Post 8791128)
Curious... what are you proposing NWA fix? I hope your druthers are not for NWA to eliminate the -UP fares. Those of us that are prohibited by travel policy from purchasing FC fares (P,F) would be shut out of Y0 flights if NWA did away with the -UP fares.

That, and I'd likely be sitting in the back of the (DL, CO, AA) bus as an alternative. :eek: I believe NWA knows this restriction is in place for alot of its customers and offers these upgradable "coach" fares accordingly. I personally am glad they do, as I would be on an alternate carrier otherwise.

I agree with you on the EQM bonus, although I have earned 150% on B-UP fares in the past. I have never seen an M-UP, so I cannot comment there.
Personally, I believe what needs to be fixed is that NWA.com should show you that you are actually purchasing a COACH FARE and that the upgrade is not guaranteed. Yes, it might be available at that moment but if you change your flight or you get moved to a different flight, etc. - the rules of the fare say you are upgraded only if "P" class is available.

I'm in the middle of a transcon trip and the outbound (flown yesterday) booked into "P". I thought I was buying P but after the purchase I realized I bought a B2P fare. So, I'm OK either way because I will still earn 150% EQM for purchasing a B fare...but those M2P or Q2P fares will only earn 100% EQM. Most unsuspecting flyers think they will automatically earn 150% EQM and might count on it in their year-end totals.

Possibly the easiest fix is for NW to implement something like CO's system where it tells you the percentage of miles that will credit towards EQM. This way when you see "FIRST CLASS (P)" and "100%", you know something is up and you can research the matter.

-RM

remedy Nov 27, 2007 8:06 am
Originally Posted by avidflyer (Post 8790271)
yes a total of 4. It will be a BF if you get it unless they open up a few more seats.
Got the upgrade this morning for the flight on Friday - 3 days out. :)

Out of curiosity, why is there both P4 and F4 if there are only 4 seats if FC? Doesn't the letter designation define seat inventory in each fare category ("buckets")?

avidflyer Nov 27, 2007 8:14 am
Originally Posted by remedy (Post 8795872)
Got the upgrade this morning for the flight on Friday - 3 days out. :)

Out of curiosity, why is there both P4 and F4 if there are only 4 seats if FC? Doesn't the letter designation define seat inventory in each fare category ("buckets")?
Yes but F is a subset of P. So there are 4 seats that NW is willining to sell at either full fare or disconted First class prices. Congrats on the UG. Said another way, F is the "Bucket" and P is a part of that bucket.

RobOnLI Nov 27, 2007 8:49 am
Originally Posted by avidflyer (Post 8795903)
Yes but F is a subset of P. So there are 4 seats that NW is willining to sell at either full fare or disconted First class prices. Congrats on the UG. Said another way, F is the "Bucket" and P is a part of that bucket.
I think avidflyer meant to say it the other way. P is the "bucket" and F is a part of that bucket. As long as FC seats exist for sale, they will exist in the P bucket at full fare. If NW revenue management chooses to, they will put some of those P seats into the F bucket and allow people to buy discounted first class fares. When someone buys one of those discounted seats, inventory is also reduced in the overall "P" bucket because there are that many fewer seats for purchase up front.

-RM

avidflyer Nov 27, 2007 9:00 am
Originally Posted by RobOnLI (Post 8796074)
I think avidflyer meant to say it the other way. P is the "bucket" and F is a part of that bucket. As long as FC seats exist for sale, they will exist in the P bucket at full fare. If NW revenue management chooses to, they will put some of those P seats into the F bucket and allow people to buy discounted first class fares. When someone buys one of those discounted seats, inventory is also reduced in the overall "P" bucket because there are that many fewer seats for purchase up front.

-RM
Yes, thank you for clarifying my dislexia:)

remedy Nov 27, 2007 9:56 am
Originally Posted by RobOnLI (Post 8796074)
I think avidflyer meant to say it the other way. P is the "bucket" and F is a part of that bucket. As long as FC seats exist for sale, they will exist in the P bucket at full fare. If NW revenue management chooses to, they will put some of those P seats into the F bucket and allow people to buy discounted first class fares. When someone buys one of those discounted seats, inventory is also reduced in the overall "P" bucket because there are that many fewer seats for purchase up front.

-RM
Or on a good day, release one or more for an upgrade after the window opens. I see now that the flight is P3/F3, so the only released the one seat that I now have. Looking at the seat map now that I have access to the FC section, there are still 3 unassigned seats.

RobOnLI Nov 27, 2007 11:37 am
Originally Posted by remedy (Post 8796405)
Or on a good day, release one or more for an upgrade after the window opens. I see now that the flight is P3/F3, so the only released the one seat that I now have. Looking at the seat map now that I have access to the FC section, there are still 3 unassigned seats.
Absolutely. R is a subset of F. (And for those not lost in alphabet soup, A is a subset of R. A is used for elite upgrades on domestic award tickets).

-RM

Bobster Jan 13, 2008 1:00 pm
I had a discounted F that was fully refundable before departure. After departure, since the discount required a roundtrip, the whole trip had to be to be repriced before a refund on the return could be given. Therefore, the remaining cash value of my return ticket after reaching my destination was only about $5. (I was curious, so I checked on the Web site to find the value of the ticket. I didn't actually request a refund.)

And there is a way to get 150% EQM's on a discounted F ticket. But you have to get rebooked in Y and then receive the bonus, just so long as you paid the equivalent of Y.

I discovered this when I missed my flight, lost my F seat, got rebooked into Y on a later flight, but did receive the 150% for Y fare class.

Perhaps if coach is not crowded and you can grab a whole row to yourself, you can ask for downgrade, and take the EQM's and still have a nice comfortable flight? :)

raehl311 Jan 13, 2008 1:25 pm
Originally Posted by avidflyer (Post 8795903)
Yes but F is a subset of P. So there are 4 seats that NW is willining to sell at either full fare or disconted First class prices. Congrats on the UG. Said another way, F is the "Bucket" and P is a part of that bucket.
P is the bucket and F is a part of that bucket. ;)

RobOnLI Jan 13, 2008 7:31 pm
Originally Posted by Bobster (Post 9060978)
And there is a way to get 150% EQM's on a discounted F ticket. But you have to get rebooked in Y and then receive the bonus, just so long as you paid the equivalent of Y.
Sorry, I'm confused. If you purchase an "F" class ticket, you will get 150% EQM. So I don't really understand the point of your post.

-RM

Bobster Jan 13, 2008 10:57 pm
Originally Posted by RobOnLI (Post 9063065)
Sorry, I'm confused. If you purchase an "F" class ticket, you will get 150% EQM.
I purchased a discounted first class roundtrip that cost the same as a full fare coach roundtrip (NW is offering this deal to match a competing airline, so this type of discount is not available on all routes). The seat is F, but the fare class is M. You do not get a 150% EQM for this because the bonus is based strictly on fare class, not the cabin.

When I lost the departure first class seat by being a no-show, they rebooked me in coach with a Y fare class, and Y does qualifiy for the 150% bonus.

In other words, I lost my F/M (no bonus) and got a Y/Y (bonus) instead. On the return flight I did get the F/M since I got to the airport on time for that one. :D


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