SchmutzigMSP

I meant "unofficial" in the sense that it wouldn't be a regularly attainable elite level like Silver, Gold, and Plat. Just something out there that if you get to, you're in and no re-qualification or anything else is necessary. So it would be sort of an ancillary tier, although still "official" in terms of marketing and technological support.

The non-rev thing was just a joke. Hope you got that.

Blank Sheet

You know perhaps it time to try something totally new that programming will support. Elite Perks allows us to gift status to a person of our choosing after accumulating "x" amount of EQM in a year. I know that this program may not live past this year but could we extend the idea. Lets say you fly "x" EQM over some amount of years or during your entire NWA and the reward would be a "get of jail" card that allows you to reestablish elite status for the standard time period that we abide by now. This gift would allow you to bring NWA back into your life when the time is right to cash in a "get of jail card"

As an alternative gift, maybe our WP numbers could be a non-expiring e-cert that allows us to access exit rows and P seating when our name is on the reservation? Not sure if this is programmatically possible.

divrdrew

I tend to believe that a balance can be achieved if the current Elite fliers get the upgrades before the 'Retired' folks. Perhaps a priority something like what SchmutzigMSP noted:

Current Plats
Current Plat Companions
Current Gold
Current Gold Companions
Current Silver
-non-revs?
Retired Plat
Retired Gold
Retired Silver

Not quite sure where to put non-revs into the mix. Of course, the 'Retired' status would only kick in for the years that the flier failed to reach any of the current elite levels. Basically the idea would be that after all the current loyal customers and non-revs are taken care of, any leftovers would go to the retired. Not quite sure if anyone would ever score an upgrade, but IMHO, the better benefit would be the lifetime of priority screening and boarding for the retired passengers.

kcnwa

You wouldn't just be able to lump in "retired". It would have to be based on miles flown. You can't have a person who hit PE one year then never fly again be considered a retired plat. Not fair to the ones who fly 15 years as a plat.

But I think everyone is on to something, perhaps a level that allows for access to P seating, last in line for UG's (hey, at least there would be hope), increased access to awards, and perhaps priority screening.

But you'd have to be careful not to dilute the benefits, which I think NW has done a great job doing. I mean, what happens when a retired gets an awesome exit row, and a current 10 year PE sits in a middle regular coach seat. It's too hard to break down the benefits relative to the miles flown.

SchmutzigMSP

I think the general unspoken assumption would be there is some threshold based on mileage flown. We originally were talking about 1MM, 2MM, 4MM, etc? as potential thresholds. I suppose it could also be implemented based on longevity as KLM does (10 consecutive years as Plat gets lifetime something from them). It could also be some sort of rolling scale based on miles flown + years as a certain elite level . NW is creative enough to come up with something fair in this arena.

Well, to be fair, the newly minted Silver could take "my" exit row seat tomorrow and I'm a 4th-year PE. Just as I could take the 15-year PE's exit row next week, etc. NW has decided to open up the "good" coach seats to all elites (and "Premium fare" flyers as well), so that particular scenario wouldn't create much of a problem based on the current system.

avidflyer

Thanks Scoop. I think we all understand the business plan and the idea of rewarding the "now" pax and frankly, this approach is why we all enjoy a great UG success rate. I think, however, that given how good the program is to the current FF there is some room for some "lifetime" award structure. Nobody says it has to be at 1MM, it could be at 3 or 4MM. The "lifetime status" does not need to be Plat either and, in-fact; I would not want that much dilution to the program myself. I do think this will become a demographic issue as some high flyers approach retirement though and **some** combination of very high EQM’s and a less-than-Plat LT status could do the trick. Something like 3MM gets you LT Silver. As SchmutzigMSP points out, Silver is more valuable on NW than on any other AL so from a Lifetime award standpoint it would be pretty “Exciting” to achieve. A very high EQM requirement would then temper the dilution to the program and I think NW could then retain the folks in this situation. Just my 2 cents and I do appreciate the interaction you give us here but this is one to think about once things get stable. In the mean time, all I want is for my 2 757 segments to NOT cancel next week

divrdrew

Could also just keep it very simple. Say 2mm and you get 'Retired' period. No levels. Just Retired Elite if you don't requalify. Gets you low man on the totem pole for upgrades but gets you the elite security lines, priority boarding, and Elite seating. I'd be happy with that (although I seriously doubt that I'd ever hit 2mm BIS miles...may have had a chance if I spent my 5 years as CO Plat with NW instead ;-)

Either way, thanks just for considering it.

SteveinA2

I'm puzzled as this discussion is missing some key points

1. THe FFP is probably the most profitabole part of NWA. Why wouldn't they want folks to use a NWA credit card, partners etc to reach 1,000,000 miles

2. It is not just about rewarding long term platinums (like me) it is also about generating revenue. The fact I'm AA lifetime gold means I will always choose NW (or a skyteam partner) then AA then US, UA, etc

3. Folks move and people's flying patterns change. In fact the weekly travel consultant is a low revenue person for NWA - You can get platinum for less than $5000 on cheap week to week fares. Whereas the occasional Full fare last minute traveller is valuable. I've spent way more on AA this year (some $1000 RT's) than NWA - Yet have earnt 4 times the miles on NW than AA.

4. Dilution arguments are pretty week if you copy AA's program. There is no Executive plt match in AA so the best flyers are protected. How many lifetime Platinums (NW Golds) are there that dilute the pool because they don't already earn Platinum/Gold - Not much dilution occurs for a 2 trips a year person.

SchmutzigMSP

They do. They have the WorldPerks Visa and I'm sure they'd love people to rack up 1,000,000 miles on it to get the kickbacks from U.S. Bank. What they don't reward is people with EQMs or anything like other airlines do when you use the credit card. I wholeheartedly agree with this. Status should be earned by flying, not by spending on a co-branded credit card.

But, as you make in an upcoming point, if you're really only traveling two times a year, how much *extra* revenue are you going to be generating for NW, and will that really offset the costs of maintaining the program and the benefits? Once in a while if you buy a last-minute fare, NW may appreciate the business. But in the long run, for only a couple of trips a year, the generating revenue argument is weak.

Right now, WorldPerks is a mileage based loyalty program with a few caveats for high dollar fares (50% bonuses for full fares, Platinum Points, etc.). It would be the same situation if AA was the one you were flying all the time but bought a few last minute $1000+ tickets on NW. AA doesn't have a revenue based loyalty program, either.

Competition for upgrades as an AA Gold can be quite stiff. Throw in all the lifetime Golds in there and perhaps that's one contributing factor as to why upgrades are harder to come by. As a NW Silver, I could expect roughly 40-50% upgrade rates without paying much attention to when/where I was flying. I don't think AA Golds are anywhere near that. Yes you can make the argument that AA has a better F product -- we're not here to debate that -- but and upgrade is an upgrade. I'd take a NW F seat over an AA Y seat any day of the week, and the odds are I'm going to get that more often with NW. If you throw a bunch of NW lifetimes in the mix at Silver Elite, then those benefits are diluted. Considering that SkyTeam members can earn EQMs on three domestic carriers (4 if you count AS), there are potentially a huge pool of folks that could be affected if NW granted Silver status to lifetimes.

As I alluded to earlier in the thread, I don't think someone should really be sticking with a program for that lifetime carrot dangling out there. It's almost meaningless because the relative benefits are small, it takes so long to get there (usually), and once you get it, if your premise is that you're only flying 2 or so times per year, you're not really getting much use out of the benefit.

If NW decided to add something like I proposed a few posts ago where at some threshold they were granted "Lifetime Base Elite" or something like that where they might be below current-day Silvers for upgrades, but still enjoy most of the other Silver benefits (pre-boarding, elite carpet, elite security line, priority reservations phone number, etc.) then I think this is something that could really work.

I've warmed to the idea of some sort of lifetime recognition, but I still don't think just giving them the lowest elite tier is the best idea.

florin

I agree with the fact that giving away status is diluting the benefits for current Elites.

Every FF program, just like the respective airline, has ups and downs. The key is to choose the one that suits you best. There are many aspects of WP (that we all love) that other FF programs don't have, just as there are benefits that WP lacks in comparison with others. It is unreasonable to expect a program to change just to match others. (Just think if NW would implement the stupid 18 month expiration that US has...)

Having said that, someone who has been a plat for 15 years has enjoyed the plat benefits for all those 15 years. Frankly, I think that's plenty (just think of all the extra miles, all the upgrades, etc.) If that person stopped flying frequently then I don't want to compete with him/her over upgrades or whatnot. Like I said, it's all about what suits you best. If a lifetime status is what is important to you then switch to DL.

yogimax

To quote that wonderful cartoon character Garfield, "It's all about me!"

Most of the comments here are written from the standpoint of active, high mileage flyers, who don't want further competition for their upgrades.

At the risk of incuring the wrath of some, I applaud those who have given their loyalty to NW over the years. Their business kept the airline from possible bankrupcy years ago and deserves some recognition.

My own thought is that million mile BIS members should be guaranteed lifetime silver status. No need to create new or special categories and they will not be in competition with platinum and gold members for upgrades.

Those who have been loyal to NW in the past deserve something more than a baggage tag. Note that this would ONLY affect those who do NOT travel 25,000 miles a year. Thus, their impact on the entire system would be minimal to say the least.

Yaatri

I am currently a few thousand miles short of 2 million total miles earned. I think, I am still short of a million BIS miles. I am working on my 10th year as a plat and have always flown well above 75K, but never above 95K miles in year. Assuming an average of 80K miles a year, plus the two years I spent as a gold, I should be somewhere between 800K and 1 million BIS miles, more likely around 900K or so. I do not recall receiving anything from NW.

thezipper

Remember ... the 50% "bonus" EQM for biz fares don't count... I'm only at about 700k eqm myself, got a ways to go...

Yaatri

I have flown on ly two b or Y fares. One was to London, for work and the other was to Bucharest. Since 2001 all my travel has been personal, so I haven't bought any B/Y fares since then. I might be between 700 and 800 then and might hit MM in 3 more years.

Homestop

Just reached 1,000,000 actual miles flowed. NW sent a letter of recognition,$100 coupon off a marriott hotel stay anywhere, a very expensive pen made out of the same composite as the Dreamerliner 787! Cool! And of course a attractrive luggage tag.