Early AM flight delayed w/o notice

 
Old Jul 21, 07, 12:15 pm
  #1  
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Early AM flight delayed w/o notice

I am Platinum Elite and very loyal to NWA.

I fly them even to OKC where both the equipment and the schedule are less attractive than the competition. But I stick it out!

On Friday, July 20th flight 4708 was scheduled out of OKC to MSP at 7:20AM. That early departure meant I had to get up at 4:30am in order to drive from my hotel to the airport, return my rental car, and clear security. Imagine my GREAT DISAPPOINTMENT when I arrived to see the flight delayed 2+ hours for crew rest. I had checked flight status and printed my boarding pass late the evening before .... I guess I wasn't smart enough to check AGAIN 5 hours later!!!

The crew overnights HERE in OKC so NWA knew THE NIGHT BEFORE that the flight would be delayed.

WHY, WHY, WHY did I not receive an email or text message so advising?
I do NOT believe I should have to sign up for "alerts" for EVERY FLIGHT!! I book dozens and dozens of flights. NWA knows my email address and my cell phone number.

I'm tired and grumpy and it's THEIR fault. I am usually a big NWA fan.

I still am ..... I emailed NWA CS and received a PERSONALIZED apology back within 4 hours. It said, in part:

We do regret you were not notified in advance of the flight irregularity. I realize that accurate information would have saved you a significant amount of time and frustration. Our policy is to notify as many passengers as possible with a goal of 100%--but this is not always possible. We apologize for the inconvenience caused. Your concerns have been shared with our Vice President of Reservations Sales and Services.

We do value you as a Platinum Elite customer, and for that reason we have added 11,500 WorldPerks bonus miles to your account.


Got home on time .... miles earned: FSD>MSP = (500+625) and MSP>OKC = (695+869) RT = 1125 + 1564 or 2689 plus double miles for the NWA Visa purchase = 1402 plus the 11500 "complaint" miles. Grand total 15,591!!!

gll
Total Mileage Since Enrollment now 2,384,249
glafollette is offline  
Old Jul 21, 07, 10:09 pm
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Since you knew the crew overnights in OKC, did you consider to check the status of the inbound flights the evening prior to your departure? Always a prudent thing to do for early flights at an outstation with limited ops.

It appears as if the late MSP-OKC arrived at about 1am, making it quite obvious that the crew would not be legal at 07:20.

A 1.5-2hr delay, however inconvenient, is nothing abnormal at any airline.

The 11500 miles you received as compensation is quite generous.
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Old Jul 22, 07, 6:15 am
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Very generous on the part of NWA.

When it started flying into CAE, this happened quite frequently. Can't tell you how many times I checked online before heading to the airport for the early am flight. Online it was reported as ontime. Got there, and found out it was delayed. Wish I would have complained to TTU about them...probably missed out on 40-50k bonus miles
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Old Jul 23, 07, 9:38 pm
  #4  
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Clarification

geoffco, et al .....

Thanks for the input. I never considered having to check on the status of the inbound flight. While it's a good idea and probably would have avoided the instant problem I think it's asking a lot of a PE flyer to do so. I think that's something that NWA should be doing!

Also, note that I'm NOT complaining about the couple hour delay. Heck, that's NEVER a problem. I'm complaining that it was at 7:20am and had I known of the delay (and they knew EXACTLY how long it would be based on FAA rules ---- NO chance of leaving early as oftentimes happens in other cases. Had NWA done an "above and beyond" then I could have stayed in bed until 6:45am rather than having to get up at "dark-thirty o'clock".

Thanks again.

gll
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Old Jul 23, 07, 10:07 pm
  #5  
 
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Originally Posted by geoffco View Post
The 11500 miles you received as compensation is quite generous.
Originally Posted by divrdrew View Post
Very generous on the part of NWA.
I have no choice but to agree with these. What you got, IMO, is damn generous for the situation you "endured".

A prudent traveler, regardless of elite status, always checks the status of their flight before leaving for the airport. Presumably the information was right there at your fingertips if you were to take the 10 seconds to log onto nwa.com and type in the flight number. No computer/internet? Call NW reservations or the elite line to confirm the flight time and status. A couple of minutes, tops.

I should say, flying enough to be a Platinum Elite and not having learned the value of checking your flight before heading to the airport tells me you've been incredibly lucky with delays and such that it's never become part of the routine for you. Hopefully it will from now on.

And strictly editorially speaking, if it was that much of a hardship to get up at "dark-thirty o'clock", don't book the first flight out in the morning. We've all been there before, multiple times. Booking the first flight out means getting up early just as booking the last flight in usually means getting to bed late. Usually we just deal with it.

/soapbox
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Old Jul 23, 07, 10:23 pm
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Whether or not the compensation was 'damn' generous is completely irrelevant as there is no reason to believe that the OP asked for or was looking to receive compensation.

There was no complaint about delays in general. I doubt that the delay was noted on website at 4:30AM, and even if it had been, OP would have to be awake at that time to learn this info, which is the OP's point - OP was needlessly awake at early hour that could have been avoided with a simple communication.

I for one see the irony in that the OP was short on sleep that AM because the crew was sleeping in late, requirement or not.

Last edited by lstheodore; Jul 23, 07 at 10:34 pm
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Old Jul 23, 07, 10:45 pm
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Originally Posted by lstheodore View Post
I doubt that the delay was noted on website at 4:30AM, and even if it had been, OP would have to be awake at that time to learn this info, which is the OP's point - OP was needlessly awake at early hour that could have been avoided with a simple communication.
Why do you doubt this? Do you have any factual evidence to state that the flight's status would not have been updated at 4:30AM? NWA is a 24/7, 365 company, you know...

Your other point is simply flawed, however. OP would have needed to be awake at that time anyway to received the "simple communication" if NW sent it to him via text message, call, or email. It doesn't matter if he went to look at the status or if NW sent it unsolicited -- he still would have been awake at that hour.

Unless you're presuming that NW should have used their Magic 8 Ball and known that the previous crew would be delayed sometime earlier to let OP know during the previous day...

Originally Posted by lstheodore View Post
I for one see the irony in that the OP was short on sleep that AM because the crew was sleeping in late, requirement or not.
I guess that causes me to see the irony in that the OP's morning flight crew was still in the air flying while OP was already enjoying precious Zzzzzzz... so he could be on the same early AM flight as this crew.
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Old Jul 24, 07, 1:53 am
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Originally Posted by SchmutzigMSP View Post
Why do you doubt this? Do you have any factual evidence to state that the flight's status would not have been updated at 4:30AM? NWA is a 24/7, 365 company, you know....
didn't say it was a fact, only based on my experience that known or nearly certain delays are often posted only close to flight time...this is routine and not only for NW

Originally Posted by SchmutzigMSP View Post
Your other point is simply flawed, however. OP would have needed to be awake at that time anyway to received the "simple communication" if NW sent it to him via text message, call, or email. It doesn't matter if he went to look at the status or if NW sent it unsolicited -- he still would have been awake at that hour.
Your criticism is flawed, OP's claim is that NW knew the night before that flight would be delayed and could have notified the OP at that time. AGAIN, this was the point of the OP's post.

Originally Posted by SchmutzigMSP View Post
Unless you're presuming that NW should have used their Magic 8 Ball and known that the previous crew would be delayed sometime earlier to let OP know during the previous day....
OP claims that NW knew of the delay because the crew for his flight overnights in OKC, OP's departure city. OP states that crew flies into OKC night of 7/19 delayed. As a result of this delay, it is known(yes, the day before) that crew will violate crew rest rules for their AM flight out on 7/20, and this results in the delay for the OP's early AM flight. NO MAGIC 8 BALL NECESSARY.

Originally Posted by SchmutzigMSP View Post
I guess that causes me to see the irony in that the OP's morning flight crew was still in the air flying while OP was already enjoying precious Zzzzzzz... so he could be on the same early AM flight as this crew.
Again, OP's claim is that his crew overnighted in OKC, so the crew was not 'in the air flying while OP was already enjoying precious Zzzzz..', the crew was in fact resting during the delay(the delay was to satisfy min. crew rest) while OP was waiting out the delay at the airport.

If you have reason to doubt OP's claims about where crew overnights, you certainly haven't made note of it yet. If you don't have information to challenge OP's premises, then all of your points are completely incorrect, and you ought to read a post more carefully before you blast away with your criticisms.
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Old Jul 24, 07, 3:06 am
  #9  
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I've managed to avoid this problem by having those automatic text messages sent to me 3 hours prior to departure. It's worked on one occasion.
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Old Jul 24, 07, 5:58 am
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Originally Posted by slippahs View Post
I've managed to avoid this problem by having those automatic text messages sent to me 3 hours prior to departure. It's worked on one occasion.
That's just fine and dandy (for you). Didn't help the OP in this case.

Istheodore....Very well said.

There's a reason NWA was "very gracious"
with the miles. They dropped the damn ball. The NWA apologist mentality is a bit tiresome here eh?
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Old Jul 24, 07, 7:32 am
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Originally Posted by lstheodore View Post
Your criticism is flawed, OP's claim is that NW knew the night before that flight would be delayed and could have notified the OP at that time. AGAIN, this was the point of the OP's post.
But how does OP know that NW knew? It's pure conjecture designed to support the original argument that NW knew but didn't bother to notify.
Originally Posted by lstheodore View Post
OP claims that NW knew of the delay because the crew for his flight overnights in OKC, OP's departure city. OP states that crew flies into OKC night of 7/19 delayed. As a result of this delay, it is known(yes, the day before) that crew will violate crew rest rules for their AM flight out on 7/20, and this results in the delay for the OP's early AM flight. NO MAGIC 8 BALL NECESSARY.
It wouldn't be known what the delay was like until the day's flight was over. How late would the previous crew be? Without that Magic 8 Ball, no one knows how late they'll be until they've arrived in OKC and the day is officially over. At some point, if they're too late, NW has to make the call whether to cancel the morning flight, fly in a new fresh crew in the early AM, or just delay the flight. Hard for them to send out a message when they don't know what they're going to do until well after OP is (presumably) asleep yet the crew hasn't arrived in OKC yet.

Originally Posted by lstheodore View Post
Again, OP's claim is that his crew overnighted in OKC, so the crew was not 'in the air flying while OP was already enjoying precious Zzzzz..', the crew was in fact resting during the delay(the delay was to satisfy min. crew rest) while OP was waiting out the delay at the airport.
Look what geoffco posted. Crew apparently arrived around 1am. OP surely would have been enjoying precious Zzzzzz by then. If not, I doubt that sleep is as important to OP as it was made out to be. The crew was likely sleeping when OP awoke and went to the airport, yes, but you're ignoring the fact that the crew was still working when OP was asleep earlier, and FAA rules require minimum rest periods.

Originally Posted by lstheodore View Post
If you don't have information to challenge OP's premises, then all of your points are completely incorrect, and you ought to read a post more carefully before you blast away with your criticisms.
I've read every post carefully in this thread. You apparently haven't before you decided to blast away at me, NWA, and the crew. All for a few hours of precious sleep and getting up early.

Originally Posted by lovetotravel06 View Post
Didn't help the OP in this case.
Yeah, well, OP didn't do much to help himself in this case, either...

Originally Posted by lovetotravel06 View Post
They dropped the damn ball. The NWA apologist mentality is a bit tiresome here eh?
Good grief. They "dropped the damn ball" for following FAA crew rest regulations and for not notifying OP immediately after the delay? But OP didn't "drop the damn ball" for not bothering to check on the status of his own flights?

The "attack NWA and anyone who tries to look at all sides of a situation" mentality tiresome, especially over a couple of hours of sleep. There are greater tragedies in the world.
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Old Jul 24, 07, 7:34 am
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Are you sure NW has your contact information and you are signed up for alerts? NW have been very good at notifying me about delays on early morning flights - as early as the night before. I get a text message two hours before the flight along with e-mail to both my personal and work addresses. I dont' have to sign up for this every time - it is in my nwa.com profile and works great (except for EUA status - those are always late and often wrong).
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Old Jul 24, 07, 10:18 am
  #13  
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THis is likely what happened...

The flight in question is a flight operated by Pinnacle. As mentioned before, the new departure time cannot be computed until the actual flight has arrived and the crew is off duty. Now, it is up to PINNACLE or the operating airline to update pars. I'm not sure if pars is automatically linked to the notification service, but if it isn't, then it would take initiative at Pinnacle to contact NWA for the update. The same thing would occur with a Mesaba or Compass operated flight.

So it isn't like NWA knew about this delay all day long and decied to keep everyone in the dark about the new departure time. These sorts of things are the perils of scheduling crews to their max duty days with the minimum rest that is legal per the FAA. This sort of thing is very common at Pinnacle and less so at Mesaba and NWA.


AZJ
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Old Jul 24, 07, 10:32 am
  #14  
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I am sorry - but the amount of excuses here are laugh-able. NW did not contact the OP as maybe they could have, and basically realized thier error and that is why the appology and the miles.

NWA has created this nightmare - and it is not the customers' fault for not anticipating it - period.


Originally Posted by SchmutzigMSP View Post
But how does OP know that NW knew? It's pure conjecture designed to support the original argument that NW knew but didn't bother to notify.

It wouldn't be known what the delay was like until the day's flight was over. How late would the previous crew be? Without that Magic 8 Ball, no one knows how late they'll be until they've arrived in OKC and the day is officially over. At some point, if they're too late, NW has to make the call whether to cancel the morning flight, fly in a new fresh crew in the early AM, or just delay the flight. Hard for them to send out a message when they don't know what they're going to do until well after OP is (presumably) asleep yet the crew hasn't arrived in OKC yet.


Look what geoffco posted. Crew apparently arrived around 1am. OP surely would have been enjoying precious Zzzzzz by then. If not, I doubt that sleep is as important to OP as it was made out to be. The crew was likely sleeping when OP awoke and went to the airport, yes, but you're ignoring the fact that the crew was still working when OP was asleep earlier, and FAA rules require minimum rest periods.


I've read every post carefully in this thread. You apparently haven't before you decided to blast away at me, NWA, and the crew. All for a few hours of precious sleep and getting up early.


Yeah, well, OP didn't do much to help himself in this case, either...


Good grief. They "dropped the damn ball" for following FAA crew rest regulations and for not notifying OP immediately after the delay? But OP didn't "drop the damn ball" for not bothering to check on the status of his own flights?

The "attack NWA and anyone who tries to look at all sides of a situation" mentality tiresome, especially over a couple of hours of sleep. There are greater tragedies in the world.
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Old Jul 24, 07, 12:00 pm
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Originally Posted by mdb View Post
NWA has created this nightmare - and it is not the customers' fault for not anticipating it - period.
Who suggested that it was the customers' fault for not anticipating problems? Are you putting words in someone's mouth?

It is the customers' fault for not knowing the status of their flight when the tools to do so are provided and they choose not to use them. Period.
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