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The CONSOLIDATED Management caused it, no labor caused it THREAD

The CONSOLIDATED Management caused it, no labor caused it THREAD

 
Old Jun 25, 07, 9:56 pm
  #1  
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The CONSOLIDATED Management caused it, no labor caused it THREAD

Originally Posted by sxf24 View Post
Then I guess you have little basis to your claim that the cancellations are because pilots aren't showing up for work (as opposed to other factors).
As I've said elsewhere, my information is credible. It's up to you whether you want to believe it, but it certainly wouldn't surprise me if you didn't. Of course, you've yet to state how your information is any better than that which the general public receives. So, either way, it's just a pi**ing match. It's too easy just to blame it all on management without actually investigating other possibilities or following other leads. Sort of like the police only focusing on the first suspect they find and not following up other leads. But everyone will believe what they want to believe. Luckily I have credible information to base my opinions on.
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Old Jun 25, 07, 10:55 pm
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Originally Posted by SchmutzigMSP View Post
As I've said elsewhere, my information is credible. It's up to you whether you want to believe it, but it certainly wouldn't surprise me if you didn't. Of course, you've yet to state how your information is any better than that which the general public receives. So, either way, it's just a pi**ing match. It's too easy just to blame it all on management without actually investigating other possibilities or following other leads. Sort of like the police only focusing on the first suspect they find and not following up other leads. But everyone will believe what they want to believe. Luckily I have credible information to base my opinions on.
At the end of the day, its managements responsibility to operate the airline.

Its obvious that NWA ALPA's relationship with management is less than congenial, but suggesting that pilots would choose not to meet their contractual obligations and show up for work is absurd. While the weather is obviously exasperating the situation, this is ultimately about staffing levels. We've seen it before and its likely that we will see it again.

Fortunately for those impacted, NW is better than most in responding to this type of situation.
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Old Jun 26, 07, 6:39 am
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Whatever the situation is that is truly causing the delays, It is quite evident that management is not worth the big $$$$$ they were paid at the end of bankruptcy.

This is the management team that led them into bankruptcy, mismanaged labor, cut most amenities on all domestic flights, and now they are directly or indirectly causing 10 percent of their flights to be cancelled on a daily basis. It is as if the management wants everyone to suffer except them. They will lose customers because of this.

I am nervous because I am flying them 7/31 from ord to msp, and I fear it will be worse by that time next month.
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Old Jun 26, 07, 9:53 am
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Originally Posted by SchmutzigMSP View Post
As I've said elsewhere, my information is credible. It's up to you whether you want to believe it, but it certainly wouldn't surprise me if you didn't. Of course, you've yet to state how your information is any better than that which the general public receives. So, either way, it's just a pi**ing match. It's too easy just to blame it all on management without actually investigating other possibilities or following other leads. Sort of like the police only focusing on the first suspect they find and not following up other leads. But everyone will believe what they want to believe. Luckily I have credible information to base my opinions on.
It's also just too easy to blame it all on the pilot's.

By the way who exactly is your source?

Anonymous as well as biased correct?
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Old Jun 26, 07, 5:33 pm
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The CONSOLIDATED Management caused it, no labor caused it THREAD

Ah, looks like all the goat herders are exacting their revenge. I'm not sure what they want accomplish, really. I don't think that NWA is going to renegotiate the contract, maybe they just want to make Dougie's stock options worthless?
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Old Jun 26, 07, 5:52 pm
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Originally Posted by BearX220 View Post
CNNMoney.com reports 12 percent of NW departures are canx for today... also indicates a summer-long work-to-rule campaign by the pilots is in the offing. Quoting from a CNNMoney writethru:

The pilots union is also urging its members to strictly follow the contract on what flights they are willing to fly.

"Fly safe. Fly the contract. Don't fly sick. Don't fly fatigued. Don't fly hungry," the union's hotline message to members recently urged pilots.


The stage could be set for Northwest's version of UA's summer-from-hell in 2000. Management could soon be reaping what it has sown, karma-wise. If only my family didn't have an August booking on NW metal, I could sit back and enjoy the implosion.
Was wondering when someone would bring up the work-to-rule aspect, beat me to it.

Must be the MR'er in me, noticed that there aren't many extreme-specials right now. DTW-LAS used to be predictable for good Tue or Wed runs, and prices right now stink. If there were a special to come up, wondering if booking towards the end of the month is a good idea... at least there's a chance for some DB210s. Always the oppurtunist...

Steve B.
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Old Jun 26, 07, 6:17 pm
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Originally Posted by BearX220 View Post
The pilots union is also urging its members to strictly follow the contract on what flights they are willing to fly.

"Fly safe. Fly the contract. Don't fly sick. Don't fly fatigued. Don't fly hungry," the union's hotline message to members recently urged pilots.
I don't see the problem with the quote.

Fly safe - One doesn't want the pilot's to fly unsafely.

Fly the contract - If the Pilot's don't want NW to violate their contract [which NW signed] then the Pilot's can't violate the contract.

Don't fly sick - I don't know how many times I've flown with sick crew members and ended getting sick myself. This will lead to an even greater reduction of Pilot's if they're flying with other sick Pilot's and become sick.

Don't fly fatigued - It goes back to safety. Long hours and little rest can lead to disasterous results.

Don't fly hungry - How well is anyone supposed to work when they're hungry?
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Old Jun 26, 07, 6:56 pm
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Originally Posted by Jaimito Cartero View Post
Ah, looks like all the goat herders are exacting their revenge. I'm not sure what they want accomplish, really. I don't think that NWA is going to renegotiate the contract, maybe they just want to make Dougie's stock options worthless?
Or put themselves out of a job?
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Old Jun 26, 07, 7:16 pm
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Originally Posted by NWAFA View Post
I don't see the problem with the quote. Fly safe... Fly the contract... Don't fly sick... Don't fly fatigued... Don't fly hungry...
The problem is, it's a coded message, and you know it. We're going to see flights grounded, trips wrecked, vacations torpedoed, etc. because flight crews decide they need a donut, or that once-a-month acid reflux just kicked in. Oops, sorry, can't fly.

I watched United Airlines pilots screw their company into the ground with these tactics seven years ago. The stunts they pulled were beneath contempt. Unforgivable.

I have no doubt that a goodly number of NW employees wouldn't think twice now about running the same plays or worse, just for the hell of it. Could be a really interesting summer.

Yeah, yeah, I know, nothing left to lose, it's nothing personal, etc.

See you on AirTran.
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Old Jun 26, 07, 7:31 pm
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Originally Posted by Jaimito Cartero View Post
Ah, looks like all the goat herders are exacting their revenge. I'm not sure what they want accomplish, really. I don't think that NWA is going to renegotiate the contract, maybe they just want to make Dougie's stock options worthless?
Provided the pilots continue to abide by their contract, they have absolutely no problem.

The moment this becomes a full-blown work slow down or an illegal work stoppage (disregarding the vague allegations thus far), the pilots screw themselves, the passengers and NW. The airline has precious little goodwill (unlike UA or AS had) to carry them through a "summer from hell."
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Old Jun 26, 07, 7:39 pm
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Originally Posted by BearX220 View Post
The problem is, it's a coded message, and you know it. We're going to see flights grounded, trips wrecked, vacations torpedoed, etc. because flight crews decide they need a donut, or that once-a-month acid reflux just kicked in. Oops, sorry, can't fly.

I watched United Airlines pilots screw their company into the ground with these tactics seven years ago. The stunts they pulled were beneath contempt. Unforgivable.

I have no doubt that a goodly number of NW employees wouldn't think twice now about running the same plays or worse, just for the hell of it. Could be a really interesting summer.

Yeah, yeah, I know, nothing left to lose, it's nothing personal, etc.

See you on AirTran.



DON'T FLY HUNGRY!!??? Most of the FAs and staff have always said we could live without snacks or ANYTHING for 3-4 hours. Tell me its not safe to fly hungry? Then feed me on my LAX-DTW-AZO connection on which my only option is a $5 box of crap.
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Old Jun 26, 07, 7:44 pm
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Originally Posted by bubbashow View Post
DON'T FLY HUNGRY!!??? Most of the FAs and staff have always said we could live without snacks or ANYTHING for 3-4 hours. Tell me its not safe to fly hungry? Then feed me on my LAX-DTW-AZO connection on which my only option is a $5 box of crap.
It's fair to say the FAs have zero control over that decision.

That would be...... Management.



the lag between reporting on flyertalk and airliners.net and media reporting is interesting.
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Old Jun 26, 07, 7:48 pm
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Originally Posted by thezipper View Post

This is where the guy making all the moolah (Doug) to come out with a statement, hit the talk shows, etc. and needs to say "We've got a problem... and this is how we're going to fix it... in the short term and the long term"
I heard Steenland is hedging some of that $26 Zillion and hedging on goat futures.

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Old Jun 26, 07, 7:49 pm
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We Don't Have Worms In Our Hamburgers Anymore

This is one of my great take-aways from marketing classes in Business School: Don't advertise bad news [because you just make more people aware of it].

I went onto www.nwa.com this morning to buy a ticket to Europe for September. I saw the hyperlink about their cancellation problem. I didn't know they were having it. I am also so #@)$($&*% sick of hearing about their labor problems. Blaming it on the weather was like them saying to Elites last year that Coach Choice is no different from what UAL does with Economy Plus.

So, I went onto Continental's website and found a wonderful business class fare to Europe. I will buy it and send Doug Steenland the receipt. I suggest others do the same. The message is for NWA to get its &)#(*&@*$* together. I'm so tired of this. That had their chance to mend fences in Chapter 11. Obviously they blew it.
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Old Jun 26, 07, 7:50 pm
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Originally Posted by NWwasAA View Post
I heard Steenland is hedging some of that $26 Zillion and hedging on goat futures.

One paper today misquoted his portion of the BK spoils as $26B instead of $26M.
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