cnrussell

I have a flight on 7/20, SAN-DTW-MCO (although the entire trip is 8 segments, a multi-city itinerary over 11 days) and when I tried to call and pay for an upgrade on that flight - they told me that it was a nonrefundable ticket and you couldn't make any changes. I can understand a schedule change, or moving to an earlier flight, or just canceling the ticket. But I wanted to pay Northwest real money for a set of flights that I know aren't sold out in first. That just doesn't make any business sense.

On the other hand, as of tomorrow night I will be Silver Elite so hopefully I'll start getting some upgrades. Anyone know what the chances of an upgrade on SAN-DTW or DTW-MCO is? They're wednesday flights. Everything I've read shows Orlando as a business-light destination (I mean, it makes sense) and the flight arrives at midnight, so I figure I should have a reasonable chance with that one.

I have a flight on 7/20, SAN-DTW-MCO (although the entire trip is 8 segments, a multi-city itinerary over 11 days) and when I tried to call and pay for an upgrade on that flight - they told me that it was a nonrefundable ticket and you couldn't make any changes. I can understand a schedule change, or moving to an earlier flight, or just canceling the ticket. But I wanted to pay Northwest real money for a set of flights that I know aren't sold out in first. That just doesn't make any business sense.

On the other hand, as of tomorrow night I will be Silver Elite so hopefully I'll start getting some upgrades. Anyone know what the chances of an upgrade on SAN-DTW or DTW-MCO is? They're wednesday flights.

3Cforme

Sure you can change it - apply the value of your ticket less a change fee to a first class fare. That'll have you riding up front.

cnrussell

It seems like it'd be so much easier to have something like they do with the Coach Choice seats, just a higher fee, obviously, dependant on the flight. I can book the flight one way in coach,for $680something, or in first for $750. I'd pay that 70 or 100 bucks to fly up front, confirmed.

My itinerary is SAN-DTW-MCO, MCO-DTW, DTW-ORD, ORD-MSP-SAN, on one ticket, and I do not want to go through that again. I'll suffer, but I think northwest could have an easy opportunity to make more money - on the SAME flights.

motytrah

From a pure business standpoint it's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Someone wants to give you more money to upgrade. Take the money and stop wasting customer and CSR time.

If I was a share holder I'd be all over investor relations about that. (As long as you're not going from Non-refundable to Refundable as a loophole).

MikeMpls

Why do you think they sell tickets in booking classes F & P?

If purchased today as part of a roundtrip ticket, SAN-MCO on 7/20 would cost $365 in coach or $525 in first, a difference of $165. Next time, plan ahead & cough up the extra $160 and you will have that confirmed seat in F.

For people who don't plan ahead and want to change their itineraries prior to departure, they have change fees. You agreed to the terms and conditions of your fare class (including the change fees) when purchased your ticket.

You can even do it yourself on nwa.com:
It will walk your though the whole process and you can end up with your "paid upgrade" in F.

cnrussell

Thank you. I am well aware that my only option to changing the flights that I have booked would be to incur a change fee under most circumstances. I am also well aware of a contract, the contract of carriage, and the understanding that purchasing a ticket according to the fare rules binds me to those terms and conditions.

I was unaware that was available on the website, thanks for pointing it out. I like that they allow you to change the class of service for each segment (I would object to paying for F on DTW-FNT, but I'll consider it for SAN-DTW, lol) I still begrudge the fact that they charge a change fee for what is strictly a class-of-service upgrade (i.e., this is literally the equivalent to an e-checkin upgrade, or upgrading using miles, neither of which hit you with a change fee when purchased).

SchmutzigMSP

That's not entirely true. Once you change to, say "F" class, you will gain a lot more flexibility as the ticket will become refundable, may have much less strict stay requirements (i.e. no minimum stay, no Sat. night stay, etc), and probably allows subsequent fare changes at no additional cost.

Hence, they're going to charge you a change fee to get into that level of flexibility. That makes business sense.

Bigpops

I have been told by agents in the past that you can not change a non refundable ticket to a refundable one. Actualy makes sense since one could buy a non refundable ticket, then when they could not use it buy an upgrade to FC (refundable) ticket and then cancel the whole trip and get a refund.

At least that is the story I have received in the past. It is not so much about the revenue but I think there may be a scammer or two out there who just might take advantage of this situation.

geoffco

NW's policy isn't much different than you'll find anywhere else. You bought the non-refundable ticket, and if you did it online, clicked the box indicating you read and/or understood the fare rules. They're always glad to collect the $100 change fee and charge you the difference between the fare you paid and whatever the current fare in F is, so technically you can pay for the upgrade.

If you'll be Silver by then, consider burning 15k miles for the upgrade. Quite worth it at Silver for 2 flights of decent length. SAN-DTW will be a tough upgrade for Silver, the late flight to MCO, as you suspect, will likely be much easier, but no guarantee.

What did you expect NW to do? The F fare is likely $1000 or more and I would guess your ticket is cheap. If you could simply buy a ticket for $200-300 and then call and pay a $100 upgrade fee, nobody would ever pay for F. That would make no business sense.

cnrussell

I hadn't thought about the refundable fares, or change in fare rules. I would assume there is some sort of promotional First Class fare which has restricted rules.

When I said "strictly a class-of-service upgrade" I meant, in comparison to a schedule change, which is, in my opinion, acceptable for a change fee.

Regardless, I think that NW might sell more first class tickets if they offered an op-up (based on fare class, route, and distance) since most people don't price first class tickets at all. Of course, then you take away one of the most powerful benefits of the WorldPerks program - the free elite upgrades.

MikeMpls

Yes and no. I believe it becomes refundable (i.e. no change fee as per the new fare class) but cash refunds aren't allowed.

lambrettaStarr

Late night flights to MCO are typically open, you shouldn't have too many issues. I have been flying in/out of MCO since I was silver and I have missed 2 upgrades in / out of MCO. One of those misses was as a plat. There are not many folks like me who fly NWA and are based out of MCO.

oliver2002

First of all I wonder who 'buys' a F ticket in the first place. The domestic F cabin is either full of connecting intl WBC pax or upgrades (vacations, EUA, YUP and the like).

I second the idea of spending 15k for an upgrade. I usually use my NW miles for that purpose whenever I fly NW mainline for >3h after carefully avoiding K and T fares during the booking process since I'm not even close to SE.

kenaisteve

If you look at the basic SE benefits you will see:

Upgrades From Full-Fare Coach Tickets
When you are traveling on a full Y fare or -26/-27 type fare, you may confirm your First Class upgrade at the time of reservation. (Full-fare tickets offer greater flexibility and more immediate upgrades.)

So even if you pay $100 change fee, I have to believe full Y fare is a lot less than full F fare and you get the upgrade at booking.

SchmutzigMSP

Your gross over-simplification is, well, just that.

Many people 'buy' F. I've been on a number of flights in the past few months where I was the only one or two in the FC cabin who didn't pay for FC (I was able to see the manifest on these occasions).