thezipper

Ms. Boda and I have discussed this issue at length, I think there might be some progress, we'll see what can be implemented...

No one wants the FA's to make an upgrade decision they shouldn't, but no one wants to see a FC seat go out empty either...

enviroian

Well at US it is. Simply choose the silver with the greater YTD EQM's. Done.

Dodge DeBoulet

They list YTD EQMs on the passenger manifest? Remember, the question is how FAs would handle upgrades when the GA isn't doing his/her job. I doubt the FAs have access to EQM information.

avidflyer

I am not sure they have that data at the gate. I will get flamed for this but the easiest way is any systemic time stamp. Check-in time is right there, conclusive and easy. I think we have to remember that if a process it is not easy to do then it will likely not be followed.

mikeef

My original thought, and probably the better instinct, was just to leave this be. But I simply had to respond, since the attitude in this post is so unlike that of the great employees that I've dealt with in the past.

You wonder why passengers get pissed off and feel like they have to fight for upgrades, service, etc? It's because of posts like this. Rather than looking out for the passengers (You know, the ones who pay to fly.), some have chosen to take the "management screwed me, so I'm going to look out for me and my own" attitude. Damn skippy you take one of the silvers and move them up, if you're going to do anything at all. If you're not empowered to move up the elites, there is certainly no reason to move up the employees.

Mike

cabledave

I haven't flown NW for awhile, however it this is an example of their FAs attitude toward paying customers I will consider myself fortunate.

Hey pal??? Nice.

enviroian

Good point. I failed to notice this was revolving around a flight attendant making the call, not the gate agent. That being said, I know the gate agent has that info b/c it's happened to me a few times doing the gate upgrade dance.

I believe at US no flight attendant under any circumstances has the authority to upgrade a boarded passenger, leaving the burden solely on the gate agent.

DTW-Reserve

You assume I represent ALL employees?

Can I assume that ONE passenger represents ALL passengers then as well?

No, it doesn't work that way.

I guess I should just leave this forum, as there seems to be little respect for the input I offer.

I offered my input, and was jumped on for it. I was lumped into the "group" of angry malcontents. I've NEVER been one of "those" flight attendants. I do my job with pride, and yes, even joy. But it seems that there is a small group that wants to equate being a flight attendant with being bitter. It is not fair.

I agree now, and have all along, with what you guys are saying..... you just need to read my posts.

I've said all along that the CSA's need to perform their functions properly. If they did, there would be no discussion about this.... but in the real world, where I live, it doesn't always play out that way.

There have been suggestions that the FA's be given a list of people to upgrade, or that we take it upon ourselves to dole them out. Again, it doesn't work that way. The Elite program has guidelines and rules, and it is incumbent upon the CSA's to administer the program accordingly.

Now for whatever reason, when it doesn't happen that way, I get the impression that you expect the FA's to sort it out onboard. I say from experience, it just can't happen that way. Oh sure, from time to time, you might be able to get that one silver sitting in the back up front because you have several open seats. And you know what, I've done it before.... many times. You see, like I said earlier, I take pride in the job I do and the service I provide.

But if there are problems with the processing of upgrades, it is a Customer Service issue, not an Inflight issue. (speaking in terms of departmental responsibility, that is!)

I am just becoming increasingly tired of all the bashing I percieve in here. I come to this site, as I have for years now, to gain insight into the mind of the frequent flyer. I come here to read about what can make the difference between a flight and a GOOD flight. But I feel that this site is becoming more and more hostile towards the employees lately, and I feel reluctant to continue being a member of a site like that.

I guess I should just leave you to continue your discussions, and I will look for my insight elsewhere.

mdb

Your frustration is noted. Not everyone here jumped all over you - so please understand to many of us you input is of value. From reading the tread - the
"heat" pretty much came for one or 2 individuals and certainly there are some misunderstandings.

As I think you said, this issue is a very hot topic. The FF are a varied lot and there is a huge disparity of opinions. However, at least on this site board, the Elite upgrade is something that has been and I believe will continue to be, one of the FF most important topics.... and if we see, what we feel is a paid for or earned perk, go to a non-rev employee we are not really happy about it.

In my opinion, if the FA(you or anyone else for that matter) upgrades a coworker the FF feels riped-off.

I understand this part is not your job, but the CSA's, however it is the appearence of it that gets people upset - no matter the rationale.

No doubt a very HOT topic.... and yes it is NWA management who should fix it.

NW scoop

I want to jump in here and first say - don't leave this forum. Your comments are welcome. Thanks for the perspective you have provided so far. Unlike counterparts at another carrier, NW is not going to discourage participation/interaction with customers on this forum (this is of course provided that employees do not violate company confidentiality policies). Our best ideas are generated in conversations between customer and employee - when we share this information amongst ourselves, we have the opportunity to create positive change. Now let me speak more to what we see as the core of this particular issue.

There are many factors rolled up into one here, but the one that matters most is the customer perception of not getting something that was promised. As my colleague explained, when the plane is on the ground with the door open - upgrading is the responsibility of the CSA in charge of the flight. The primary reason for this is because they have the tools required to process the upgrade for the 'next person in line' per our program rules. (When I say tools, I mean simply computer access to the NW system.) Because NW's system is heavily computer dependant to process upgrades, this tool is invaluable in providing our Elite upgrade benefits accurately as described by our program rules.

When the door is closed - the flight crew (specifically the lead flight attendant or LFA) is in charge of what occurs inside the plane. There are circumstances where re-seating may need to occur after the door has been closed, however those situations are extremely limited and infrequent. Our standard procedure is for the LFA to verify with the CSA that all passengers are properly seated, all carry-ons have been secured and all other flight regulations have been met. Then and only then is the CSA allowed to close the door of the aircraft.

Now then - we, the people that manage the program, have also heard from customers that there is an opportunity for us to improve how we execute this process...and we are looking into options for this. But not to sugar-coat what this means in terms of dollars and cents, this would require significant investment to provide the tools for flight attendants to make these decisions with the correct information about status and "who is next". (When I say tools, I mean things like upgraded SPIL reports, etc. which require significant programming.) It is less a matter of if we WANT to make this type of investment and more a matter of WHEN is the right time to do so and HOW will it function best.

The opportunity for NW to consider these types of changes is much better now that we have emerged from bankruptcy. Our product development team is reviewing literally hundreds of items to improve customer service, improve the product and increase revenue. As I have mentioned in other topics, as these projects are launched, we will do our best to point out examples and explain the rationale behind them.

NW scoop

NWAFA

Well stated NW Scoop.^

PurdueFlyer

The CSA's do not have the information at their fingertips. You appear on the upgrade list in the order which you should be cleared. Your status is displayed next to your name, along with your fare basis. AFAIK, the only way to see EQM's accrued is to display your FF profile in the PARS reservation system. This will also give us your current status, EQM's and EQ Segments earned, lifetime miles, along with your personal information like address and email--great if the CSA is stalking you! The EQMs are really academic at this point because the waitlist is already ordered. If you get down to 1 seat left, and there are 2 silvers on the list, I'm taking the silver that is first on the list. Any extraneous information the CSA is giving you is because the CSA is digging a little deeper into your FF profile.

Also, and I know this isn't what prompted the thread, but just because there open seats in F doesn't mean that the CSA isn't doing their job. I flew 110,000 miles last year, all of it "standby." That is more than alot of Platinum Elites! Over 50,000 of those miles were in F or C class. I didn't get upgraded that many times by CSA's who break rules and upgrade out of order. I got those upgrades because there were enough seats in F on certain flights, that when the CSA got down to my name on the waitlist, they had an open F seat for me.

My point is that the discussion on the board is great, which keeps me coming back, but I think we are overanalyzing this process alot of the time. Just something to keep in mind.

kcnwa

Two quick observations:

1. Last week, there were 5 pilots on my plane. In fact, it was delayed for 15 minutes while they figured out who was going to fly the plane! No joke! It was a light load, 19 in back 12 up front on a DC9-30. The 3 extra pilots (scheduling mix up) took seats in coach. Granted it was light and they each had their own row they did not take open FC seats.

2. Today, on a DTW>MKE flight where there knowingly are PE's who fly in coach, I witnessed FC seat go empty.

Some Commentary:

I guess one thing you have to look at is, while you may not care now, it's probably because you haven't been affected. When you are told you are "next on the list" or in the "top three" and you witness seats go empty while you sit in coach, that is irritating, not matter how you slice it.

And frankly, why should the paying customer suffer from a CSA that's too lazy to do their job, or an FA who, perhaps tells the CSA "we're full up front" and the CSA doesn't look at the manifest and as soon as that door is closed, a non-rev is moved up front.

And frankly -- to the people who support the "once the door is closed, it's the FA's discretion on how to use seats" mentality, I have a severe problem with that attitude. It is the FA's discretion to use those seats for the SAFETY of other pax, NOT for the comfort of employees.

I'm also not fond of the "well if the CSR didn't do it, it's not my responsibility" mentality of the FA's. While that's human nature to not take responsibility, I think that's a poor response to just put it off on the CSR.

I think NW Scoop realizes this is a heated issue among FT'ers and I'm sure any observant FF who gets screwed out of FC, regardless of fault notices. The process needs to be fixed and the parties involved, mainly the CSR's and FA's need to accept the change. Otherwise, you'll still have CSR's who say it isn't my job, and FA's that say it isn't their responsibilities.

clarence5ybr

If the plane is still at the gate and the door is open, an FA should certainly consult with the GA over a legitimate issue such as this if the issue has been brought to the FA's attention.

However, it's my understanding that with certain rare exceptions, once the door has been shut, FAs can be subject to disciplinary action if they "UG" a passenger, even if they know that pax is Elite. If that's the case, then I think it's tough to hold it against an FA for saying anything other than "if the CSR didn't do it, sorry, but I can't"

NWAFA

I can assure you that FA's do not deliberately tell the GA that FC is full so they can upgrade an employee. It's to easily tracked and the FA is looking for trouble from the company if they do something like that.

I don't understand why you can't get your head around the idea of the LFA's discretion. It is what it is.

It has already been explained why FA's don't do elite upgrades on the plane. The tools aren't there for them to do the upgrade. That came right from NW Scoop. So why are you still complaining over something that the FA has no control over?

You need to relax and realize that there are some situations that you just can't control.