florin

Look, I understand where you're coming from. I don't travel within the EU all that much (probably somewhere between 5 and 10 RTs per year), and I would LOVE for the intra-EU flights to be considered domestic and UGed. But the reality is, just because some are very short hops it doesn't mean they're not international. You are traveling between different countries. Granted - smaller countries, shorter flights... but the EU is not a federation of states; besides some common policies they are still very much separate countries.

I do fly within the US quite a bit (although mostly TATL). (After all, I am a WP member, not FB.) I love the UG's!! I do wish they did Elite UG's for flights within EU but the airline industry is very different in the EU.

On the bright side, there are no CRJ's in EU!

HeathrowGuy

As a US citizen (and NW Elite) myself, I *prefer* the intra-EU legacy airline models for air travel vs. the intra-USA models hands down. On most EU legacies, including KLM, a passenger in Economy will be served a snack or light meal (including, in many cases, complimentary beer and wine) on most flights over 45 minutes. Furthermore, the restriction on seating until check-in times means not having to worry about all the exit row or bulkhead seats having been taken a month before the flight - there are often "good" seats left even if check-in is not performed until an hour before departure. Additionally, if one buys a ticket in the forward cabin, it's generally unrestricted, and comes with free lounge access (though such access also comes from being an Elite in many European FFPs regardless of cabin purchased).

BNAChairman

What??? What about LH's Sh!ttyhopper airplanes...CRJs all the way with no F class. Just a curtain partition with the same sh!tty seats as the rest of the cabin and a crappy meal. I much prefer real F seats and service in North America over the EU's econo seats with a tray of crap. I h@te intra-EU service, no matter the carrier. Just try getting your flights changed during irregular ops over there and see how fun it is.

HeathrowGuy

No worse than getting flights changed around with US legacies who are experiencing record load factors.

pbarnette

I wouldn't say I prefer it, but that is what we are stuck with. And, to be honest, the average flight is so short that the other benefits, especially lounge access mean more than the free drinks and extra room. But, I understand the cynicism. My advice? Bleed the lounge dry!

SkyBuck

From the Bombardier web site: "The first Bombardier CRJ to enter service was the 50-seat CRJ100 with Lufthansa CityLine in November 1992." and "The Bombardier CRJ700 made its maiden flight in May 1999 and was delivered to inaugural customer Brit Air/Air France in January 2001."

LH CityLine operates 58 CRJs, according to their fleet listing, and Eurowings (LH Regional) has 17 more. All with lavs, fortunately for the OP.

Cityhopper is KL; Fokkers, not CRJs.

Klm is Dead - Long Live KLM

Not to mention of course the benefits provided by sustainable business models and more of a market economy existing in the EU airline industry compared to the protectionist one in the US. In Europe the losers go bankrupt and disappear rather than being bailed out by the government and artificially propped up through Ch. 11, all the while shirking on pension payments, screwing the employees on salary and working conditions, giving outrageous compensation to the top executives and finally delivering ever worse service to us poor passengers unfortunate enough to have to travel.

I always feel safer and happier flying with a company where the young pilots aren't on food stamps, afraid to fly as a team and speak up to a senior(ity) captain, the cabin staff have bandwidth to give decent service because they aren't worried about eviction notices, clean seats haven't been eliminated along with the cleaners, and in-house maintenance staff haven't been threatened with outsourcing if they don't agree to scrimp on safety procedures and maintenance to save costs. Go figure.

TheTrustedTraveler

And its nice to see all this good stuff trickle down to the consumer

cfischer

Allow me to disagree. There is just a historically grown difference in the type of Elite benefits you receive in Europe and the US. Lounges are undoubtedly better in Europe and as a mid-elite tier member you get access on more or less any itinerary you fly within your alliance. I could come up with more differences which work in favor of European airlines, but this is not the point.
To say European CS stinks whereas everything in the US is great is at best undifferentiated.

DanTravels

I know flying to Hawaii involves going over a fair chunk of the Pacific, but between what two points within the US can you fly TATL?

asnovici

Actually, Czech Airlines CSA OK members get complimentary international upgrades including Transatlantic on CSA metal.

sbm12

MIA-BOS??

NW.BTR.Than.The.Rest

I fly numerous times per year through AMS from the US, and up until two years ago, I felt that KLM was totally incorrigable. Clearly, that still must be a problem; however, in the past two years, I have successfully flown standby (from the gate) on earlier KLM flights when my NW TATL flight arrived early in AMS. Both times, I had no checked luggage, and they were very nice about it. In fact, most recently, in February, I got the very last seat with just a handwritten boarding pass. I just knew they wouldn't get me on that flight because they were quite overworked getting seating, etc... for the packed flight. I have had a couple of operational upgrades, but I agree there is not much reason to call it WBC. More space is what I am looking for, and on occasion, WBC on KLM is tighter than coach - once I even moved back to coach.

What really gets me is when I have used miles to upgrade to WBC from the US, the KLM segment was not available at the time, and they have no way of recognizing the fact I had ALREADY used miles and upgrade me to an available seat when I reach AMS. This worked once, but the exchange with gate personnel was not pleasant. I find the personnel in the lounge a total waste of time.

kaka

duh ive stayed in the NL for 9 mths and that's what i hear almost every day. (The days when i dont is when i dont see a dutch person. or if i have decided not to talk to one)
Stayin in an international student house and stock up your fridge...

A: Cant you (bloody) wait till I finish my meal before taking my plate?
Waiter: It is not possible.

Jano

That's only for OK Golds (their highest elite level) and only from certain reservation classes: Y, M, B, H, T, L, N, Q, V. OK Silvers can upgrade TATL for 4000 OK miles from the same reservation classes as OK Golds. CSA has only 2 TATL routes: JFK and YUL on A313.