UG waitlist placement?
 

Wife and I are PE, flying on"L" fare psp-msp and three seats available for upgrades. No UG at 24 hour check-in, placed on waitlist. At check-in counter agent says there are 12 people in front of you on the waitlist for first class. Three people got UGd at the gate. On the way to the bagage in MSP, I politely asked one lady that got UGd what type of fare she was on, she stated she was on a K fare, but figures she received the UG because she has earned over 150,000 EQMs in 2006. I only had about 90,000 EQMs in 2006.

This may mean that the BF UG equation takes into account number of miles flown in a year, besides just status, fare type, time of purchase.

Missed UGs on eight flights in 2006 as Platinum. 0 for 1 so far in 2007. Need to improve my success rate. Do not mind it on the < one hour flights, but do not like it on the > three hour flights.

There is a huge amount of data in the NW Wiki (I have to look for the link and will post it when I get ot) but I would ask when you bought your ticket. Fare class seems to have little to do with placement but the two things that seem to have been figured out here are:

1. When you bought your ticket. The further out you booked the higher on the UG list you go. I think this is just basic list management in the algorithms of the system

2. Time of check in. The closer to 24 hours out that you check in the higher up you are on the list (check in at 23:59 gets you at the top of the list)

There is really no evidence that fare class plays a role for domestic flights AFTER the 5-7 day Plat window. I believ it helps prior to the EUA running but I have no evidence of that. Note: this is my interpretation of the data others may have differing opinions. I too have bought a more expensive fare a week out from the flight and missed the UG. In-fact, that is the only one I missed last year. All of my $250.00 trans-cons that were purchased 3 or 4 weeks out EUA'd at 5-7 days. I earned 189K eqm's last year and as I said, I missed an UG and I doubt it was because anyone was flying more than me;)

Also, there are some great strategic moves you can make while checking in to better your chances. It has been reported that if you check in and do not get the ug the proper thing to do is to quit the check-in (you are already on the waitlist as soon as you get the message on line) and go back later and try again. I can report that this absolutly did work for me once. I quit check-in, went back later and tried and the system gave me the UG on line.

Read the Wiki it is a great collection of data.

My understanding is that "re-checking-in" only works if an R-bucket seat opens up between your attempts at OLCI. Or, worded differently... you'll get the OLCI upgrade if there's an R-bucket seat available, for each time you attempt OLCI. It's risk-management. Do you check-in once at 23:59, and (presumably) are at the top of the BF upgarde list? Or do you keep checking-in during the 24 hours, hoping to get a confirmed OLCI-upgrade, (presumably) resetting your OLCI time, hurting your BF chances? I'd say as a Plat, go for the 23:59. As a Silver, do the re-checking-in thing. But that's presuming that re-doing OLCI resets your OLCI time.

The best solution would be to check-in at 23:59 (to get to the front of the list for BF), have access to the R-bucket data and find some way to configure something to alert you when an R-bucket seat becomes available, then re-do the OLCI to snag the R-bucket seat. That way you have access to both solutions... you'll either be at the top of the OLCI list, and/or get the R-bucket seat if it becomes available.

Steve B.

Well put Steve. That is what I understand as well but you worded it much better than I.

Here is a link to the Wiki...most of the tips, tricks and general knowlegde reported here is in there. It is a great resource.

http://www.flyertalk.com/wiki/index....Elite_Upgrades

23 59 revisited
 

This is a tired topic, but in my mind still unresolved. I have been under the impression that 23 59 olci is the best way to optimize the chances of an upgrade and was in the middle of doing this today but had to call the elite line because of a glitch in seat assignments. The agent told me NOT to check in, because I would miss the computer sweeps that happen periodically between now and the 7 am flight tomorrow. So, I aborted olci. I have heard both theories on this - both on Flyertalk and from elite desk agents. Does anyone have the definitive answer on this?

anxious in cmh

I no longer believe that checking in at 23:59 is the best approach. In my experience of flying DCA-DTW almost weekly this fall, there is definitely a "new" sweep that occurs sometime in the early morning the day of depature. My new recommendation is to not check in the day before unless you see R availability in KVS or similar. Should you not score an upgrade at that time, cancel out of OLCI and hope you are automatically upgraded in the early morning.

It appears to me that NW is holding back more F inventory and dumping it into R and sweeping people into it the morning of the flight.

Thanks... I'm usually the one having other people word-craft for me... :)

Wow. I could cover my presumptions about system logic, but this does sort of make sense. As a Gold, I've seen EUA sweeps occur at 1 day (vs. 3), so that sort of makes sense that NW could do delayed manual releases of the EUA process. Remember that EUA sweeps requires entries in the R-bucket, so it makes sense that they would have to release R-bucket seats, and run sweeps (Plat, then Gold, then Silver).

Well, here's the big question, and I'm looking for someone who definitively knows to answer it... does doing OLCI at 23:59 prevent you from having an EUA sweep (with available R-bucket space) place you into First, if the EUA sweep occurs after you OLCI?

This seems to be a rather straightforward back-end process. Backward-engineering this: at 6 days, X number of R-bucket seats are released. Plat runs at 5 days, Gold at 3 days, Silver at 1 day. I can't see any reason for someone to manually release more R-bucket seats at/for OLCI, in that if the system is tuned enough, there's 1 or 2 F-bucket seats left, everyone's been upgraded who can be, and the F-buckets are sold or given out as BF upgrades (do remember that BF upgrades are entered as F).

If NW is holding back the R-bucket seat release, and picking specific flights to delay Plat/Gold/Silver EUA processing, that really isn't a problem... we all just have to wait a few days before our confirmed F upgrade. As long as doing OLCI at 23:59 doesn't impact your ability to be EUA'ed by automated processes after OLCI, then NW is invited to try to sell every last stinkin' F-bucket seat they can... I can wait until BF upgrades, to sit in F.

But.. if doing OLCI at 23:59 does impact your ability to be EUA'ed, if EUA does run after 23:59, then there's a serious systems design issue here. Imagine the confusion, if half the Elites checked in at OLCI, then NW ran the EUA processes in serial at 11:59 pre-flight (in the proper order). The OLCI people would get nothing, the non-OLCI would be upgraded until the R-bucket was empty, then the OLCI people would be BF upgraded until the cabin was full. That'll be fun.

I'm sure there's a dozen reasons why NW hasn't done this, but it sure would make life easier: why doesn't NW just publish a single 8.5x11 Visio flowchart with the full system logic of EUAs?!?! Include things like what processes can be manually overriden, how OLCI and fare effect EUAs, and what the impact is if EUA runs after someone's OLCI'ed?

Please? :) Pretty please? :) With cherries on top? :)

Steve B.

Yes, is my experience. Once you are checked in, your locked out of EUA. Only a TA or GA can issue the upgrade at that point or you have to be un-check'd in to allow another source to upgrade you.

Here is what I found on the Continental Website which clearly lists their priorities on Elite upgrades. It does seems like if we are to fly Continental, fare class comes before booking time.


* Unrestricted Y fare class or Northwest Airlines -26/-27 fare: Allows all Elite members to upgrade at the time of ticketing when a seat is available. If a member is already ticketed and wants to request the upgrade, they can visit Manage Reservations or call their Elite Priority Line and provide their confirmation number.

* Elite level: Members are prioritized according to their Elite level -- Platinum, Gold and then Silver. When traveling with other Elite members or non-Elite members, Elite members should purchase their flight on a separate itinerary.

* Restricted fare class: Upgrade priority within Elite level will be based on fare class purchased. The fare class structure in priority order is as follows: H, K, N, B, O, V, U, Q, I, S, W, T, X and L.

* Booking date/time: All else being equal, the sooner Elite members book their flight, the better their upgrade chances.

* Check in time: If your upgrade is processed from the standby upgrade list at the airport, check in time will be used in place of booking date/time.

Not to throw a wrench into this theroy because I'd love to know as much as the next guy how this works BUT I was flying TPA to DTW last November. I did OLCI at 23:59. I didn't get upgraded and printed my "coach" boarding pass. 3 hours later I went back to look at my reservation to see what gate I would be arriving into and there it was, my seat in "First." I reprinted the boarding pass with the new seat. Before reprinting I did NOT attempt to recheck in for my flight I just saw the change under my reservation. Now that is the only time that has EVER happened to me but it did happen.

jjlovecub, Did upgrade post to your milage account as R or F? If R then forget what I posted.

I have long held the theory that fare class is a non-factor for NW. I have no scientific evidence, only personal experience. In 2006, I only missed one upgrade (EUA or battlefield).

Almost all my trips were on the cheapest fare available and included multiple trips to the west coast (LAX, SFO, etc.) and LAS

I just looked and under Class Flown/Paid it says R/T

I recall reports on this FF forum of elites that were on the UG standby list multiple times, due to their repeated "OLCI, Yes - I want the UG, cancel when no UG is forthcoming, try it all again later" attempts. The GA's were :confused: by all of it, but no evidence of overriding their first OLCI time from what I have read.

Until evidence is presented to the contrary, I think the multiple-attempt method is best suited for snagging an elusive R seat.

I have had this same thing happen to me in the past, that is partly why I believe fully checking in at 23:59 is the best option.

In the original case I wrote about, I did OLCI at 23:59:59 I mean just at the clock ticked. Thought for sure would be first on UG waitlist. No way, I mean no way, 12 other PE's did OLCI before me. I did not check, but the elderly lady I spoke with probably did not check in until she arrived at the airport. Three seats were available. I did not have a chance to talk with the other two people.

Just thought this might add something to the conversation on BF UGs about the number of flown miles in a given year. In this case, it appears that it was a factor. It was on a A320 plane, 16 first class seats. There were only four seats available at the six day window, three left at check-in time. Three seats given out at gate. On the way out we were UGd six days out, so it appears that we were in the system correctly.

I too think it would be good customer service just to let people know exactly how the process works. However, maybe the reason NWA chooses not to clearly define it is that there may be flaws in the system that would be exposed to the public.